[Suggestion] Designer: only show usable components and recommendations
Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 2:48 pm
There are all sorts of recommendations telling you about components you can't or must not use, only other design roles can have aso. At the same moment various components are allowed even when they can't used in any way.
I've started with Colonization Module on a mining station, see image. While you can build this design - I let the game do it for me - you can't transfer colonists from a colony ship to a colony base/station. Why not? They are in stasis, they don't care nor can they comply for that matter. Check out the Galactopedia if you don't believe me.
Passenger Compartment, well, they are alive and thus won't buy a ticket, or would they? I mean scenery is one thing, but watching a mining operation can also be fascinating, no? Ever heard about the hotels in the opal mines in South Australia?
Troop Compartments are legal on bases, at least that's what Galactopedia tells us. Mining bases are bases, right? But you can't transfer troops between a troops transporter and a mining base. Yes, there are the famous Star Marine Barracks - with zero crew capacity. So that would be 4+ battalions waiting for nasty pirates to board that precious Loros fruits of yours - if you could transfer them to the base, which you can but can't.
And than there is the Remote Fuel Transfer, which is part of any Docking Bay anyway. So why for Shakrturi's sake would you want to click on this component other than when designing a Fuel Tanker? Oh, wait, Remote Fuel Transfer has a Fuel Transfer Range of 1000. Maybe you can use it for pure refueling purposes on space stations? Refilling fleets would become much less an impact for civilian freighters trying to keep the spice flowing.
Caslon is the blue gold in DW2. Any Caslon mine is special among the mining stations as it's also a fueling station. But we have only one mining station design in operation, realistically speaking. While you can have multiple designs in theory, it'll become a micromanaging wet dream for one part of the community while it's a nightmare for the bigger rest. And the AI, well I get it, you can't ask it to handle all of this without simple rules which don't require a big decision tree.
Various people have suggested to add multiple strains of designs, based on the same basic design. Internally it could be done by retrofitting automatically only within those strains, like a Caslon mining station design, while the other mining stations would retrofit to the basic mining station automatically. A far away mining station has other needs than one in your home system, where defense is much more likely than half a galaxy away. [...]
This covers only the unusable components on mining stations - haven't followed my idea about Remote Fuel Transfer, just came up with it while typing. Other designs, other unusable components.
A timesaving solution would be asking the community to provide the necessary data for all those variants. Start a thread and you'd only have to add them a few days after their arrival. Rest assured, there will be cross checks among the dedicated players. The list might not be complete from start but whenever a new conflict shows up it will be added.
And we get shorter component lists. I'm using 4K and large UI and have to scroll even with only latest per category selected. Don't reduce the amount of available components, just show only those that are usable. There is no need to change recommendations red, telling us in popups that a component isn't allowed. You can do it with size, see weapons on smaller ships, so you've proven that you can do it.
Some critical missing components are only recommended but missing them would make a design very fast inoperable, like Energy Collectors. Without any you'll run dry much more likely sooner than later.
When the Energy Collection Rate becomes less than the Static Energy Used either turn the number red or, if you're using RGB colors, add different values of green based on the difference, thus the value turns from yellow to red the bigger the difference is. Since it's only shown in the designer, the game is paused, so no impact on even the minimum graphic card, that can run DW2. But it would be a huge visual help. Similar works for HSV, CMYK or any other format you may use.
Once you have researched Skip Drive you're not allowed to design ships without any HyperDrive. At the same time you can add a Skip Drive without any recommendation to use a higher tier HyperDrive.
You can only add a limited amount of engines. When you add the maximum amount any bigger ship will have a slower Top Speed and a lower Maneuvering turn rate than the rest of your empire-wide average. You simply can't avoid this and still you'll get those recommendations. At some point you don't care to check because of this. And that can't be the intended reaction of players, correct?
You have reached the maximum limit of x engine for this Ship Hull. recommendation.
Since you balance engines this often makes adding an additional engine slot necessary, for even and odd engine designs. Obviously you can't use all slots in most cases. Just gray those slots out and stop "recommending" it.
I've reported this before, see [1.0.3.7] Upgrade results in unbalanced Engines, and meanwhile I think I know why upgrades often end up with unbalanced engines. Whenever possible you first add high tier components and remove the replaced component afterwards. That's why two engine balanced designs end up with two engines unbalanced designs. Same goes for jumping around replaced basic components etc.. Players designing their ships carefully end up with ugly designs or have to use Copy As New instead and do ever Upgrade manually.
I'm not the first one approaching these problems, see for instance
Please feel free to add anything to this incomplete list
I've started with Colonization Module on a mining station, see image. While you can build this design - I let the game do it for me - you can't transfer colonists from a colony ship to a colony base/station. Why not? They are in stasis, they don't care nor can they comply for that matter. Check out the Galactopedia if you don't believe me.
Passenger Compartment, well, they are alive and thus won't buy a ticket, or would they? I mean scenery is one thing, but watching a mining operation can also be fascinating, no? Ever heard about the hotels in the opal mines in South Australia?
Troop Compartments are legal on bases, at least that's what Galactopedia tells us. Mining bases are bases, right? But you can't transfer troops between a troops transporter and a mining base. Yes, there are the famous Star Marine Barracks - with zero crew capacity. So that would be 4+ battalions waiting for nasty pirates to board that precious Loros fruits of yours - if you could transfer them to the base, which you can but can't.
And than there is the Remote Fuel Transfer, which is part of any Docking Bay anyway. So why for Shakrturi's sake would you want to click on this component other than when designing a Fuel Tanker? Oh, wait, Remote Fuel Transfer has a Fuel Transfer Range of 1000. Maybe you can use it for pure refueling purposes on space stations? Refilling fleets would become much less an impact for civilian freighters trying to keep the spice flowing.
Caslon is the blue gold in DW2. Any Caslon mine is special among the mining stations as it's also a fueling station. But we have only one mining station design in operation, realistically speaking. While you can have multiple designs in theory, it'll become a micromanaging wet dream for one part of the community while it's a nightmare for the bigger rest. And the AI, well I get it, you can't ask it to handle all of this without simple rules which don't require a big decision tree.
Various people have suggested to add multiple strains of designs, based on the same basic design. Internally it could be done by retrofitting automatically only within those strains, like a Caslon mining station design, while the other mining stations would retrofit to the basic mining station automatically. A far away mining station has other needs than one in your home system, where defense is much more likely than half a galaxy away. [...]
This covers only the unusable components on mining stations - haven't followed my idea about Remote Fuel Transfer, just came up with it while typing. Other designs, other unusable components.
A timesaving solution would be asking the community to provide the necessary data for all those variants. Start a thread and you'd only have to add them a few days after their arrival. Rest assured, there will be cross checks among the dedicated players. The list might not be complete from start but whenever a new conflict shows up it will be added.
And we get shorter component lists. I'm using 4K and large UI and have to scroll even with only latest per category selected. Don't reduce the amount of available components, just show only those that are usable. There is no need to change recommendations red, telling us in popups that a component isn't allowed. You can do it with size, see weapons on smaller ships, so you've proven that you can do it.
Some critical missing components are only recommended but missing them would make a design very fast inoperable, like Energy Collectors. Without any you'll run dry much more likely sooner than later.
When the Energy Collection Rate becomes less than the Static Energy Used either turn the number red or, if you're using RGB colors, add different values of green based on the difference, thus the value turns from yellow to red the bigger the difference is. Since it's only shown in the designer, the game is paused, so no impact on even the minimum graphic card, that can run DW2. But it would be a huge visual help. Similar works for HSV, CMYK or any other format you may use.
Once you have researched Skip Drive you're not allowed to design ships without any HyperDrive. At the same time you can add a Skip Drive without any recommendation to use a higher tier HyperDrive.
You can only add a limited amount of engines. When you add the maximum amount any bigger ship will have a slower Top Speed and a lower Maneuvering turn rate than the rest of your empire-wide average. You simply can't avoid this and still you'll get those recommendations. At some point you don't care to check because of this. And that can't be the intended reaction of players, correct?
You have reached the maximum limit of x engine for this Ship Hull. recommendation.
Since you balance engines this often makes adding an additional engine slot necessary, for even and odd engine designs. Obviously you can't use all slots in most cases. Just gray those slots out and stop "recommending" it.
I've reported this before, see [1.0.3.7] Upgrade results in unbalanced Engines, and meanwhile I think I know why upgrades often end up with unbalanced engines. Whenever possible you first add high tier components and remove the replaced component afterwards. That's why two engine balanced designs end up with two engines unbalanced designs. Same goes for jumping around replaced basic components etc.. Players designing their ships carefully end up with ugly designs or have to use Copy As New instead and do ever Upgrade manually.
I'm not the first one approaching these problems, see for instance
I'm pretty sure I've missed more than one thing but at some point I just wanna play instead of typingzgrssd wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:00 pm Ship Designer
The list should have a indicator "component Upgrades availibe".
So I know when they are.a design needs a manual pass.
Stuff like "Maximum Engines Reached" should not be a recommendation.
Instead I think you need a 3rd thing. Call it a "notification".
Excess Component
With upgrades it can often happen that Crew Quarters and reactors become Superflous. The better version can do the same work with 1 component less. Which saves a ton of space and slots.
Right now I have to:
- manually remove the component
- realize it is not enough without it
- search for the component in the list to re-add it
- or cancel and restart the upgrade process, as that can be quicker
Some suggestions to solve that:
- A notification or recommendation "excess component". I am not sure how to idenfity the right component (as the Commandcenter also adds crew, but is there for a lot of other reasons), but maybe the biggest providing component only? Or does it need a dedicated recommendation?
- Undo button. Then I can try and undo if it fails
- Give me a option to select a item type from the design bay. Middle Mouse Click to "grab" the component type is my first guess.
Please feel free to add anything to this incomplete list
... there goes my private economy down the drain 