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I showed this on Discord when I was there and believe I showed it in my AAR here. Don't remember off the top of my head. Maybe some may consider CupCake runs for their games. It may not be for everyone but you can get more freight out of the NSS I have upgraded both airfields to level 3(or still in the process of it upgrading). Did the upgrade to at least TRY and get OPS losses down. Seems my endevour to do that is still in "failure" mode on less OPS losses. I will continue to figure it out. BUT it does get that extra Freight out though and to me it is 100% worth it as Germany!

NSS Berlin CupCake Freight drops


NSS Prague CupCake Freight drops

All the JU52 Transport missions pulling out a really nice Freight load for further movement of that freight the next turn. Let me know you comments.

Do a comparison of the logistics report (received & need) with and without the freight drops.

Jango32 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:16 pm Do a comparison of the logistics report (received & need) with and without the freight drops.

I have not done that and think you may already have the answer. Since I know you are the Book Guy and have great knowledge. Is this worth it? Or no?

Plus I no longer have the turn to check that information

Let me check some of my other snapshot I took in earlier turns and may have captured by accident. Will do this when I get some free time later this afternoon to search all my snapshots I take of supply

If I don't have the snapshots I will set up a test bed real quick to check it.

I'd rather build another lvl1 Depot which will request 4k supplies from any NSS and therefore result in the same/more freight being shipped out of your NSSs. The Ju's I'd use for frontline depots not connected to the rail network yet, to reduce truck attrition.

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:40 pm I'd rather build another lvl1 Depot which will request 4k supplies from any NSS and therefore result in the same/more freight being shipped out of your NSSs. The Ju's I'd use for frontline depots not connected to the rail network yet, to reduce truck attrition.

Correct, BUT if pulling more Freight out than normally released in the turn is the question, right?

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:42 pm Correct, BUT if pulling more Freight out than normally released in the turn is the question, right?

I am not sure if I understand this sentence (stupid Germanist me).

But If you build an additional lvl1 Depot it will always try to pull 4k freigth from any NSSs and since NSSs have "unlimited" trains/freight they'll send it. So you'll always have more freight shipped out of your NSSs. The 4k can/will only be reduced by range/weather/rail-usage/SMP-cost.

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:21 pm Plus I no longer have the turn to check that information

Have I mentioned that I prefer PBEM over server based?

But I understand the desire to keep your opponents honest, too.

M60A3TTS wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:49 pm

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:21 pm Plus I no longer have the turn to check that information

Have I mentioned that I prefer PBEM over server based?

But I understand the desire to keep your opponents honest, too.

Yes PBEM gives you that benefit and worth it.

For me it is not so much keeping opponents honest as it is "file management" for me. I just hate dealing with it. I guess it is my "laziness"

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:01 pm All the JU52 Transport missions pulling out a really nice Freight load for further movement of that freight the next turn. Let me know you comments.

After the first ten turns, great. Go for it. I do a little of this myself.

For the first ten turns, not so much a fan of it.

There are two logistical challenges weighing down the Axis player at the start of the '41 campaign. The first is getting more supplies to the units, which is always the case. Moving freight via the cupcake runs addresses that to some extent. The second is the vehicle burn rate, which is at it's most severe during the opening three months when the panzer spearheads are at their furthest distance from forward depots. The longer the haul, the greater rate at which you burn through vehicles. Below is an example.

Vehicles lost per turn that required repair NTTD Team Game Turns 2-17

-8304
-6406
-7007
-6551
-5431
-6328
-7223
-6232
-5852
-7725 (T11)
-5923
-4898
-4821
-4381
-1269
-1204

Here you can see that from turns 2-11, over 6k vehicles were added to the repair pool during eight of those turns. After turn 11, it was zero turns over 6k vehicles and indeed after turn 15 the losses were around 1.2k.

So the point here is you are losing a lot of vehicles in these initial turns, and the cupcake runs don't really help address that. So my preference if making short haul runs, is doing it to forward depots with an airfield so that not only do additional supplies move forward while at the same time reducing the vehicle burn rate.

Here for a comparison is my latest PBEM game with the per turn vehicle loss to repair.

-9589
-4999
-2404
-4856
-3223
-4867
-4471
-5241
-4513
-4767
-3562
-2864
-4912
-4988
-3714
-2722
-3609

I only broke the 6k mark once, on turn 1 when the panzers are stretched out everywhere. Now there are a number of things I did to reduce vehicle losses, and flying supplies to forward depots/airfields contributed to that. So did not rushing the panzer spearheads and thereby playing a bit more conservatively (thanks to the OP for that idea).

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:21 pm

Jango32 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:16 pm Do a comparison of the logistics report (received & need) with and without the freight drops.

I have not done that and think you may already have the answer. Since I know you are the Book Guy and have great knowledge. Is this worth it? Or no?

Plus I no longer have the turn to check that information

Let me check some of my other snapshot I took in earlier turns and may have captured by accident. Will do this when I get some free time later this afternoon to search all my snapshots I take of supply

If I don't have the snapshots I will set up a test bed real quick to check it.

Ok, Axis supply has already ran for the turn and my depots got whatever the system decided to send out for the Axis at the start of the Axis Turn to my depots. Thus, that is all that is coming out of the NSS's this turn for the Axis since that has already happened. Here is the Basic Sequence of play and a picture of Berlin at the start of the turn with 2,497,056.




Now, what I am doing is taking more Freight "out of the NSS" and putting it on the rail network on a depot further down the rail line to be picked up the following turn. Thus this "exceeds" what would have come out of the NSS by using Air Drops, thus gaining extra freight on the supply network to be used above what Germany would normally get. This won't be captured in this turns "logistics report" since that is generated at the beginning of the turn.

Here is Berlin AFTER the supply drops at 2,496,282. I have essentially taken 774 more freight out of the Berlin NSS and put on a depot to be picked up next turn to be shipped forward.

Here is Prague example. Prague Started with 2,497,361 before the Air drops.

After the airdrops Prague is left with 2,498,849 freight in the NSS. I have been able to take 1,488 freight out of the NSS more than was sent out by the system and put that freight for pickup next turn to be delivered forward. I have a net gain of 2,232 freight I would have not gotten out of the NSS relying on the system during the Axis Logistics phase. To me this is worth it.

M60A3TTS wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:21 pm Here for a comparison is my latest PBEM game with the per turn vehicle loss to repair.

-9589
-4999
-2404
-4856
-3223
-4867
-4471
-5241
-4513
-4767
-3562
-2864
-4912
-4988
-3714
-2722
-3609

I only broke the 6k mark once, on turn 1 when the panzers are stretched out everywhere. Now there are a number of things I did to reduce vehicle losses, and flying supplies to forward depots/airfields contributed to that. So did not rushing the panzer spearheads and thereby playing a bit more conservatively (thanks to the OP for that idea).

Ok, for comparison I took your numbers in this post and added up the first 11 turns. (hopefully I am correct on adding)

-9589
-4999
-2404
-4856
-3223
-4867
-4471
-5241
-4513
-4767
-3562

For a total of 52,492 trucks in for repair according to your numbers.


Compare that to my 48,568 trucks in for repair turn 11 which I am almost 4,000 lower than your total. (compared to the team game loss of 67,059 in your first post with my number I am almost 20,000 less trucks loss)


And here is the "Area" turn 11 I am covering and you will notice I am within 22ish hexes of Stalingrad and 6ish hexes from Rostov turn 11. I am playing heavily in the South which normally has HORRID supply and with less truck losses compared to the two examples. So to me the extra supply out of the NSS is WELL worth it. But maybe I am wrong. Here is a picture of the Front.

Sorry, I am 4 hexes from Rostov T11 (You can see the FBD in the picture too)

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:28 am
Ok, for comparison I took your numbers in this post and added up the first 11 turns. (hopefully I am correct on adding)

-9589
-4999
-2404
-4856
-3223
-4867
-4471
-5241
-4513
-4767
-3562

For a total of 52,492 trucks in for repair according to your numbers.


Compare that to my 48,568 trucks in for repair turn 11 which I am almost 4,000 lower than your total. (compared to the team game loss of 67,059 in your first post with my number I am almost 20,000 less trucks loss)


Trucks.png


And here is the "Area" turn 11 I am covering and you will notice I am within 22ish hexes of Stalingrad and 6ish hexes from Rostov turn 11. I am playing heavily in the South which normally has HORRID supply and with less truck losses compared to the two examples. So to me the extra supply out of the NSS is WELL worth it. But maybe I am wrong. Here is a picture of the Front.


T11 Frontage.png

Your numbers are impressive and it's good to see that two Axis players going at it in similar, yet different styles are seeing an ability to significantly improve on previous vehicle loss rates.

Here is my T11 front line trace FWIW.

M60A3TTS wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:04 am

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:28 am
Ok, for comparison I took your numbers in this post and added up the first 11 turns. (hopefully I am correct on adding)

-9589
-4999
-2404
-4856
-3223
-4867
-4471
-5241
-4513
-4767
-3562

For a total of 52,492 trucks in for repair according to your numbers.


Compare that to my 48,568 trucks in for repair turn 11 which I am almost 4,000 lower than your total. (compared to the team game loss of 67,059 in your first post with my number I am almost 20,000 less trucks loss)


Trucks.png


And here is the "Area" turn 11 I am covering and you will notice I am within 22ish hexes of Stalingrad and 6ish hexes from Rostov turn 11. I am playing heavily in the South which normally has HORRID supply and with less truck losses compared to the two examples. So to me the extra supply out of the NSS is WELL worth it. But maybe I am wrong. Here is a picture of the Front.


T11 Frontage.png

Your numbers are impressive and it's good to see that two Axis players going at it in similar, yet different styles are seeing an ability to significantly improve on previous vehicle loss rates.

Here is my T11 front line trace FWIW.

Yes, very nice frontage, very comparable. Thank you M60 for sharing!!!