Matrix Games Forums

Hi there!

First, I gotta say that HttR's AI is brilliant (hey, most of the time [;)] ), and that this game is by far the most ambitious and imo the most successful game when it comes to bringing to life military strats and rules on a PC. I never liked round-based wargames (except the "ancient" Battle Isle series, launched on AmigaCommodore back then), so HttR is the only game working for me actually.
My neighbor bought HttR, installed it and played it one or 2 times. He never got the brilliant system and he was pretty bored, so he put it on his pile of games he figured to be so-called "washout" games.
I started to play the game on his spare 'puter, and wow......I was amazed. I got hooked on this game and kept pestering him with my presence for a while, 'til he borrowed the game to me to get rid of me. [:D]
So, I'm not a real new player (new to this forum, though) , since I play HttR for almost 2 yrs now.......but I just obtained it as a dig. download today (although it can be found as "nice price"-item somewhere, I guess, or even on ebay), 'coz I felt that the development of such a gem has to be supported/appreciated.

Anyway, I've got a couple of questions regarding the Scenario Maker/Map Maker.......

I never understood why there were so few custom scenarios (I played every custom scenario out there, El Savior etc. blehbleh) available, since this is a brilliant game.
After playing HttR for a while u get to a state where you know each corner of the existing maps and where you are able to beat the AI with - more or less - ease, and you drool over every new custom map appearing on the horizon to experience at least a bit of a new challenge.....but they come in small rates.

I dunno whether it makes sense to create custom httr maps with COTA being released, maybe I'll take it as lesson for the COTA editors.
When I started to tinker with the MM and the SM tool recently, I came across several problems, so I hope someone will help out:

1) I created a Mini-map/scenario with a couple of primed bridges and while 2 bridges use to get blown up by the player units in a good number of attempts (AI) to seize them, 3 other bridges NEVER blow up. Is there any rough rule of thumb on how to place things properly in the SM? (radius etc.) Small rivers seemed to work better than huge rivers (let's say like Rhein river, up to 520 m wide).

2) I did not get decent results while setting up the priority levels (defend/secure tasks etc.), even encountered weird AI moves crossing a river from point A (Right bank) just to get back to B (Right bank too) further north via another bridge passing through an entire enemy division. [8|]
Any general hint here?

3) This question is rather for the devs, dunno if they're sticking around here [8D] :
While the MM/SM tools are really easy to use, it can be a pain in one's butt to create huge maps.
I'm working in the multimedia design sector and I can tell that the workflow within these tools could be highly optimzed by adding a few simple options that can be seen in DTP-programs......I'm convinced that some of these additions would ensure that potential Mapmakers would be less scared to create bigger projects/maps and they would save time.

Is the SM/MM tools undergoing changes for COTA, or will they remain untouched, besides changes in estab and layer types?

Useful additions MM tool (if not added already, I haven't read much about COTA yet):

a) Copy and Paste of layers with Ctrl.+C/V or even better --> dragging while holding down the CTRL-key
b) Dunno if that's possible: Let's say you create a road network based on an original road map (underlay), where you're supposed to fill the gaps with city/town layers. A magic wand tool (just like in DTP) would be great here: Left-click with the wand tool creates corner points within the gap, while holding CTRL ("add") and another left-click adds another layer within another gap. Selecting the type of layer for this set of corner points/layers would then determine the final look. Historically correct cities (or other terrain) could be created quickly that way
c) Upgrading a layer or line would really improve things. Let's say double-clicking a layer brings up a menu where u can change the type of layer (transform roads into rivers, for example, or large woods into heide).

d) I'm working on a few ideas right now, mostly covering Germany, maybe even historical scenarios. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that a typical terrain (common in europe, even some places in Greece -> COTA :p) texture isn't available in HttR...what about Cota? --> acres/fields.
This terrain type could be used for creating a more realistic approach in custom scenarios covering events in Germany (Battle of Hürtgenwald or Operation Varsity (March '45) -> biggest Airb. op in WW2, creating a brigehead on the right bank of the river Rhein) , Belgium (Ardennes offensive) or Russia (well, if there'll be a customizable estab file).

4) Can we expect to get the possibility to port HttR maps to COTA?

Anyway......In case I get a hang of the ScenMaker and depending on how much material about "Varsity" I can find, I might start working on
-- Varsity and on the following final thrust to the Ruhrgebiet, the industrial heart of Germany, maybe on

-- the capture of the bridge at Remagen, or the attack on Cologne where the US forces came to a short halt due to all Rhein bridges being blown up, b4 proceeding via the Remagen bridgehead.

..sorry for the long post, hehe....the following screens represent an early stage of my fictional map, simulating a typical german river valley, derived from the Eindhoven map....
oh that leads to the last question:
I seem to fail to create new maps with let's say the exact size of the Eindhoven map (27968 * 40000)....OK-button not available at those sizes. How come?

closer look....the big city looks like my hometown Cologne..hmmm [:)]

Goodguy,

First off welcome.

As I am pretty focused on wrapping up COTA I won't respond in detail till after COTA's gone gold ( hopefully next week ).

We have made some changes to the ScenMaker and MapMaker but alas the copy and paste between layers is not one of them. I agree it would be a very nice feature.

COTA adds five extra altitude layers and one extra terrain layer. Of course with COTA now you can plug and play different map patterns so adjusting the look and feel of the map is pretty easy.

Please bump this post if I don't get back in a fortnight.

Aiight.....but what about porting of HttR maps? I'm not going to waste time creating a few HttR maps with COTA going gold in a few (didn't know that :p)....

Btw: It would be sufficient to be able to access "Duplicate" in the EDIT menu via Ctrl+C, for example.

I have often lamented that our community never developed the large collection of user created maps/scenarios that the CM series had evolved. As much as I enjoy the series as it stands ... much fun is to be had studying a new map and working out how to best conduct operations on it.

I am not sure why that is (limited 3rd party maps/scenarios) --- less popularity of the game or more difficult to use the tools or simply a lack of PBEM.

In fact, it was funny since the series was originally introduced (published) by Battlefront with the RDOA release. That's how I learned of it. I just assumed once I saw the feature set that the game was going to be hot, hot, hot! I believed that because I knew how often players on the CM forums whined about the lack of quality cutting edge technology games that took ground combat up to the next level (meaning larger scope). RDOA was certainly all that and more. Now, in retrospect, I think that despite whatever was discussed on the CM forums, the majority of CM players are very focused on a 3D portrayal of the action.

Goodguy, welcome to the forums!

Yes you can import maps created with the HTTR MapMaker. They are automatically converted on loading. This takes a very long time like around 15 minutes for a map like the Arnhem map in HTTR. But after you save it they open up quickly. The new map will be incompatible with the HTTR applications.

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Yes you can import maps created with the HTTR MapMaker.

So IF the httr estabs somehow get updated and make their way into a later series, someone may be able to recreate the Market Garden battles with an updated engine without re-digitizing the maps?

How big is that IF ?[:D]

I discussed the issue of Estabs with David Heath yesterday. Here's what we propose to try and do in the future. For each series - West Front, East Front, Mediterranean/North Afrika and Pacific - we will maintain one Estab file. As we develop subsequent titles in that series we will build on the previous estab file developed for the preceeding title. That way we will evolve the estab file through the series. We will not spend our time redeveloping scenarios from previous titles, but users will be able to do so. Ie. in the latest title's MapMaker they will be able to import the maps from earlier titles within that series and in the latest title's ScenMaker they will be able to create a new scenario using those imported maps and the new "evolved" estab file. The design of the scenario will be up to users not us. There will be no import scenario feature. However, with the new ScenMaker feature where you can export force lists it should make it pretty straight forward.

We will trial this out with Battles from the Bulge ( BFTB ). It will be the next title in the West Front series ( HTTR being the previous ). So we'll retain the HTTR estabs within the BFTB Estab file ( hey we may even call it the West Front Estabs [:)] ). We'll then see if this works OK and advise on progress closer to BFTB release.

IMPORTANT - This is not a promissed feature. But if we can accomodate it easily it will be included.

BTW COTA will be the first in the mediterranean/north african series. Boy that's a mouthful. We'll have to come up with a shorter name for that series - maybe Southern Front or Mediterranean Front.

Arjuna,

This is good news. I'm sure there will be some volonteers for porting HttR scenarios to BftB game.

GoodGuy,

Nice map. It would be a loss if you don't release it or do any scenario with it.

Cheers,

JeF.

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

The design of the scenario will be up to users not us.

Well that's how it should be.....there u go. Maybe just fine-tune the SM + MM tool for optimal workflow, to ease the development of a bigger base of mappers.

So we'll retain the HTTR estabs within the BFTB Estab file ( hey we may even call it the West Front Estabs [:)] ). We'll then see if this works OK and advise on progress closer to BFTB release.

That's what I was hoping for: "Collecting" the preceding estabs and putting 'em into each new release (= most recent version of the core engine/tools).....that might lead to the release of a good number of beloved "what-if"-scenarios and, even better, to the recreation of scenarios already covered within the franchise. I'd say ppl would love that.

ORIGINAL: JeF
Nice map. It would be a loss if you don't release it or do any scenario with it.

I just finished the map, but I could do with some input regarding the scenario maker (question no. 1 + 2 in my initial post), for a start . Would be nice to get some help.

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
1) I created a Mini-map/scenario with a couple of primed bridges and while 2 bridges use to get blown up by the player units in a good number of attempts (AI) to seize them, 3 other bridges NEVER blow up. Is there any rough rule of thumb on how to place things properly in the SM? (radius etc.) Small rivers seemed to work better than huge rivers (let's say like Rhein river, up to 520 m wide).

Deny Crossing objectives should be placed within 500m of the crossing. They apply to the nearest crossing.

2) I did not get decent results while setting up the priority levels (defend/secure tasks etc.), even encountered weird AI moves crossing a river from point A (Right bank) just to get back to B (Right bank too) further north via another bridge passing through an entire enemy division. [8|]
Any general hint here?

Priority values only apply to AI objectives ( ie those with no assigned VPs ). Best to keep these at Min or Low values. For victory objectives the force allocation is based on the VP value modified by the current map control, nearby enemy threat level and a range of other values that I won't go into right now. Also much has changed on the allocation of forces within COTA especially at the senior command level. So it's a bit hard for me to remember all the factors as they applied in HTTR. Sorry but it's the product of a very tired mind I'm afraid. Boy do I need a holiday.

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
BTW COTA will be the first in the mediterranean/north african series. Boy that's a mouthful. We'll have to come up with a shorter name for that series - maybe Southern Front or Mediterranean Front.

Having finished reading "Hitler's Mediterranean Gamble" by Douglas Porch a little while ago, why not call the series something like "The Mediterranean Gamble Series".