Suggestions for Spain?

[Barbu]

ORIGINAL: 1LTRambo


When you refer to gaining a casus belli, are you refering to the Major Power player who is controlling the Minor?

Yes, though not in a reference to any optional rules, since I think there are some that require a power to invoke a casus belli to declare war. I meant that should the controlling minor power suicide the fleet, that it should be considered as an act of war and that a declaration of war from spain to that major power might very well follow soon.

[1LTRambo]

Ok. However, I understood that the person playing a major (France) who is controlling a minor (Portugal) who Spain is going to war with is suppose to be impartial. But in this example, the person playing France uses his position of winning control of the minor to ensure that Spain does not increase the Spanish navy. So are you suggesting that to counter partiality (in this example France) you (as Spain) would threaten war if they suggested sinking the navy?
Also, are there any rules suggesting that a Major Power Player can not do this when controlling a minor?[&:]

[Barbu]

I can't imagine why any sane french player would do that. It's in France's interest that the Spanish navy be as strong as possible. Same with Russia. If that happens, you have bigger problems to contend with than the survival of these minors fleets, but I just don't see it as likely/

GB might want that, and it's possible that british pressure might push a Pr/As/Tu controller to do the same. For all these 4, it's probably not in their best interest to antagonize Spain early with the french issue still unresolved. Of course with diplomacy, anything can happen, but if Spain is firm enough regarding the continued existence of these minors fleets, the controlling powers might balk at going through and destroying the fleets. It's just not worth it.

[1LTRambo]

Ok, now I understand.
Thanks

[Roads]

ORIGINAL: McGuire
From my point of view the best possible alliance would be (from the beginning of the game):
Spain - France - Russia

You three can crush the GB fleets and with only a few troops you and Russia may conquer GB. What's in it for you and your allies?
France:
A quick and victorious end of the war against GB. Removal of the most annoying leader in the game! Free back to advance against Austria and Prussia.
Russia:
He can be garuanteed to get Scandinavia maybe even Denmark and Poland if he gets into the war with Prussia. The required provinces of Austria for getting dominant if he gets into the war with Austria. And maybe a Province of GB [:)]!
Spain:
Of course most important. You may advance in Northern Africa without fearing intervention of the English. You get Portugal! You seize Gibraltar (And with Morokko you can seal of the gate to the Atlantic)! And withe the right diplomacy (with France) you can get Italy and a couple other areas in the Mediterranean (MALTA!). And last bot sure not least! You are THE naval power! And you may even get the dominant status (but do not get into the way of the French)

Afterwards you and Russia may decide to go for Turkey, but that needs to be seen!

First: Crush the GBs with France & Russia!
Second: Get Gibraltar, Poland, Malta, Italy (no need to do it in this order)
Third: Go for northern Africa.

And after GB's finished of it's a win-win situation!

Win-win for France and Russia perhaps. Spain's situation after crushing Britain is more precarious. She will have farflung possesions, most of which Britain wants back. She has no way to maintain naval superiority over France without British help (France can outbuild Spain in a hearbeat if she chooses to). And she presents an excellent punching bag for la Grande Armee at any time. The game is about PPs, and France needs lots of them. Once Britain is disposed of there is no reason not to beat the crap out of Spain for a little while and then make a generous peace.

Basically this stratagy puts Spain at France's mercy, at least until Britain can rebuild a powerful navy and regain whatever else he lost in the peace. If France is generous she may let Spain prosper. But to win France needs a steady flow of PPs, and the only reason not to get those PPs from Spain is that she has not minors that can be attacked, and France needs her navy to fend of Britain. Crush the British and you're France's plaything.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: Roads

Win-win for France and Russia perhaps.

Well actually you're right! There's not toomuch holding back the French to beat the heck out of Spain. But there not mch to gain in doing so either.

Actually I was referring to a game I once played (Prussia).
The alliance (FR-RU-SP) crushed the GB fleet. Russia and Spain invaded GB and forced it to surrender unconditionaly. As result Spain got Ireland.
Afterwards France was making his points with beating AU and me over and over again. Always spend as much as he could spare for manipulation.
Spain got into North Africa and beat TU all the way back to Egypt without too much of a problem. Meanwhile FR got me to surrender (conditionally) and went on crushing AU After this was done FR-RU-SP went against TU and forced him to give up anything but his home-nation (conditional surrender).

After this FR tried to go for GB again. GB let him enter the country and them stopped his supply line. Some big FR losses followed. Only the FR ans SP combined fleets could rescue the FR troops. SP got Italy for this! But afterwars France wasn't strong enough to survive the war I was waging at him. This wasn't because of my troops but because of the RU, who backstabbed him.

In the end, a pretty beaten up GB won the game. But this was just because noone could get enough VPs to win. But SP was pretty close to it!
My guess is that with a little more offensive he could have won the game.

But I guess this is just one possible ending and I agree it's not very likely to happen. But I've seen FR and SP work together throughout a game - an it worked pretty good, too.
Butof course you're right. If FR would have gone for SP and wouldn't have done the mistake going for GB unprepared, he'd probably won.

So, to sum it up:
There is no BEST strategy in this game. Every game is different.
So, see for yourself. Do mistakes and learn! Do other mistakes and learn again!

And in the end, it's just the diplomacy!

[Murat]

Some off topic stuff but more input on the Spain question that was buried.

[Joisey]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

Things that worked for me:

Convince the Frog to go for the big attack against the Brits on turn one. You know, Trafalgar, except Nelson loses. If you do the math, you have a more than fair chance of winning the battle and landing in England. It's a high risk, high reward strategy. Unfortunately most Frogs tend to concentrate on the coming land war, preferring to take care of the British later, no matter how urgently you explain that the very BEST chance you have is right at the start, otherwise the Brits build up their fleet with new builds, minor and allied fleets.

Otherwise, protect the fleet at all costs. You will have a difficult time replacing losses, so build some while you can.

Be as aggressive in Africa as possible early on. The weak Brits can't oppose you yet, and Turkey won't make too much of a stink unless you're aiming for Egypt.

Pick an ally and be loyal. I personally prefer to toady up to the French, basically telling them at start that they just lucked out and picked up a super loyal ally who will protect their southern flank and help in any way possible at virtually no cost, except of course for infusions of cash and minors, preferably in Italy (I once formed the KoI that way - that was one sweet Spanish empire har har).

You can toady up to the Brits, but be aware that any time the Frog is looking for easy PP between wars, you will have Nappy and a bunch of corps rampaging through your provinces, and unlike the historical situation, a competent Frog can wrest a surrender from you pretty quickly. With your crappy manpower, even if you win the odd fight, you will still be crippled.

I agree with this assessment 100%

Alot of Spanish players try a "neutral" third way: Battling Turkey quietly on the side for the Title of King of the Sand Dunes! But this is a loser dud of a strategy because you'll never gain enough PP doing this.