Some Manual questions

[Joram]

Hi there, been awhile since I been around because I just couldn't play it anymore before the latest patch. Anyway, with the updated manual, I don't seem to be getting any screenshots in the manual. In it's place I just see"[screenshot 001].tif" or something similar. What's the deal with that, is it my settings, a bad download or is the manual itself messed up?

Second question, I never understood the quick battle very well and kudo's for expanding the section. However on page 67 where it gives cavalry bonuses, it says "Attacking Cavalry in any zone vs defending Infantry in any zone: Cavalry get +2, Infantry get -1". Then at the top of the very next page it says under Modifiers versus defending infantry, Attacking cavalry in any zone versus defending infantry in any zone get -5". !!!!

Are these cumulative, or contradictory?

I guess I don't see the point if it was cumulative because why wouldn't you just have one modifier instead of two? And does the "-1" mean that it's really +3 in the first sentence??? And if it's cumulative, the only place you ever want to use cavalry it would seem would be in the charge zone, otherwise unless the infantry is very weak, it would be absolutely mauled by any infantry in any zone.

If it's contradictory, which one is the right one?

I also don't quite get the Absolute Region Modifiers. If say both the attacker and defender were in the charge zone, then that would mean the attacker is at +3 and the defender is +2? Right? But if the attacker is in the charge zone and the defender was in the defend zone, the attacker is +4 and the defender is +1???? Isn't the point of the defend zone to well, be better at defense?

It seems the only proper counter to the charge zone is the attack zone. That's the only place where you get the region vs region modifier as well which would change the results of +4 for the attacker to +1 (attacker in charge zone) +1 (defender in attack zone) and +2 (region vs region modifier) = +4 so it's all even.

So the most conservative placement is actually putting everything in the attack zone so assuming your opponent has a mixture of all 3, you would never be worse than even on the modifiers when he attacked you? Conversely, you wouldn't necessarily maximize your offensive potential, but then, that's why I said it was conservative. All other things being equal of course.

Am I reading the modifiers right? It's not clear if I'm reading the tables right, a couple examples would definitely have been helpful in the manual right here.

Sorry, that turned into more of a discourse on quick battles but if someone could at least help me with my original two questions, I'd appreciate it. I don't want it to sound like I'm critical of the modifiers, I just don't understand them and I've never understood the quick battle. If I ever want to do multiplayer too, then I'd say this is one of the most important things to understand as well!

Thanks.

[Joram]

I seem to have contradicted myself a bit at least on cavalry placement.  Have to think more on that.  Preliminarily, I'd say if you had high morale infantry, you wouldn't really want cavalry, just stick all your infantry in attack and you'd likely win?

[Mr. Z]

Yes, there are no images in this version--this is not a finished manual; we've provided the revised text for the benefit of players, and also as a kind of dry run for a finished second edition of the manual to possibly be released at a later date, with images.

The modifiers, as I've always understood them, are cumulative.  I agree it's a little odd that the defending infantry modifier is treated entirely separately, but that's the way it's always been and I've never been corrected on it.  Eric may have to step in to clarify if necessary.

Likewise with the Defend zone modifier.  It's possible that there is something missing here, but I've never been told that there is, so Eric may have to clarify whether this is the case.

[Joram]

Thank you for the response Mr. Z. Didn't realize the manual was unfinished. Let me know when you find out about the modifiers please. Thank you.

[ericbabe]

Quick combat has several categories of modifiers.  All modifiers get applied cumulatively.  The two modifiers described here are modifiers from different categories.  Cavalry get a general unit-vs-unit modifier against infantry of +2 in all circumstances; however, when infantry are in the defend region then cavalry get a -5 to attack.  The two are separate modifiers because they are different types of modifiers -- one is a unit-vs-unit modifier and the other is a bonus that infantry get against cavalry for being in the defend region.

[dwinston]

Any idea when the new manual will be published?

Thanks

[Mr. Z]

Afraid not.  Possibly later this fall, but that is rather hypothetical at this point.

[Godthief]

ericbabe,
 
The only problem with your response is that you quoted the modifiers from the old manual. In the new manual, from which Joram made the references, the redundancies of which he spoke were a little more strange.
 
The new manual includes the "attacker" and the "defender" unit (distinct from region) perspective much more (which, in my opinion, only complicates things much more).
 
Also, the "Region vs. Region" reverses who gets the +2 modifier. For example, in the old manual, for Charge vs. Attack (if I am reading it right) the Charge region unit gets the +2; in the new manual, which includes the "attacker" and "defender" unit perspective, the Attack region unit ("defender") gets the +2.
 
So, in understanding quick combat, should we be using the perspective of the old manual (which is much simpler), or should we be using the new manual, with much more of the "attacker" and "defender" perspective?
 
Clearly, the "attacker" and "defender" unit combined with the "attack" and "defend" region makes it all confusing.

[Joram]

Glad I wasn't the only one who found it confusing.

[Mr. Z]

ORIGINAL: Godthief

ericbabe,

The only problem with your response is that you quoted the modifiers from the old manual. In the new manual, from which Joram made the references, the redundancies of which he spoke were a little more strange.

The new manual includes the "attacker" and the "defender" unit (distinct from region) perspective much more (which, in my opinion, only complicates things much more).

Also, the "Region vs. Region" reverses who gets the +2 modifier. For example, in the old manual, for Charge vs. Attack (if I am reading it right) the Charge region unit gets the +2; in the new manual, which includes the "attacker" and "defender" unit perspective, the Attack region unit ("defender") gets the +2.

So, in understanding quick combat, should we be using the perspective of the old manual (which is much simpler), or should we be using the new manual, with much more of the "attacker" and "defender" perspective?

Clearly, the "attacker" and "defender" unit combined with the "attack" and "defend" region makes it all confusing.

Nothing has changed, so if the old manual is simpler to understand, go ahead and use that.

Actually this is the kind of feedback about the new manual that we find very helpful, so thank you!

[VANorm]

Am I correct that the game does not include a printed User Manual, but only a softcopy one?

Has this Manual been fully updated with text and graphics combined yet?  I can live with printing-out my own, but I really would like to have an accurate referrence for a complex game.

[Ironclad]

COG doesn't have a printed manual and instead has a pdf one - the original version with full graphics. That has now been revised and expanded and issued in patch 1.2.25 but it is in draft form and so contains no graphics or screenshots.

Edit: You will note from the above posts its not yet known when the full graphics revised version will be issued.