COTA Patch 3

[simovitch]

Good catch - It's an easy fix: Open the scenario in the scenario editor and drag and drop the A15 type Rgt HQ estab from the British -> Line forces.

My apologies for the error. Thankfully the effect on the game is negligable, as 7th Armoured Bde maintains it's position as the Superior on-map HQ either way, which may explain why none of the playtesters caught it.

[TMO]

Thanks Simovitch, worked a dream.
 
Regards
 
Tim

[Mehring]

I was wondering about command structure here. Unfortunately, the patch hasn't resolved the issues around large scale attacks at all. If anything, and maybe I just didn't notice before, they're worse in that forces deploy and manoeuvre way outside their order boundaries, sometimes in quite bizarre ways. These boundaries are often rendered quite meaningless.

This being the case, as before, you have to coordinate attacks through low level HQs which ultimately loads on the divisional HQ. But the 7th Armoured HQ only has a command capacity of 14. In the game I just played, and with command loads pared to a minimum, the 7th was loaded to between 24-28. That left the Allies quite unable to respond in a "timely fashion" to events in the battle. Is that intentional?

Edit: As below, I've confused command load with capacity, changes in underlined italics

[Mehring]

Open the scenario in the scenario editor and drag and drop the A15 type Rgt HQ estab from the British -> Line forces.
Could I have a bit more detail there, as I don't know how to use the editor at all. Drag and drop it where? I noticed a brigade commanding a brigade or something. Thanks.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Mehring

Open the scenario in the scenario editor and drag and drop the A15 type Rgt HQ estab from the British -> Line forces.
Could I have a bit more detail there, as I don't know how to use the editor at all. Drag and drop it where? I noticed a brigade commanding a brigade or something. Thanks.

Mehring, the COTA Scenmaker manual can explain the editor much better than I can.[:)]

The 7th Armored Division HQ enters fairly soon in the scenario and should relieve the 7th Armoured Brigade of most of it's staff duties.

The complex attacks do form up a bit differently now and for me, it was a bit bizzare to watch the process at first. But after a bit of time it seemed to progress rather elegantly. Everyone will have their own opinion.

[Mehring]

Mehring, the COTA Scenmaker manual can explain the editor much better than I can.[:)]
 
Well maybe, but could you perhaps tell me where to find this oft referred to but elusive tome?

The 7th Armored Division HQ enters fairly soon in the scenario and should relieve the 7th Armoured Brigade of most of it's staff duties.

Both the 7th division and brigade HQs have command capacity of 14. It doesn't suffice, as most if not all command burdons are loaded onto the division HQ.

The complex attacks do form up a bit differently now and for me, it was a bit bizzare to watch the process at first. But after a bit of time it seemed to progress rather elegantly. Everyone will have their own opinion.
 
Sorry, my confusion. I was mainly referring to Defend commands from X and XX HQs that I issued in Maleme historical. These often took the form of unauthorised attacks against massively superior enemy concentrations, these many kilometers beyond the defensive boundaries I asigned to the unit. They also vacated key defensive areas, like the coast road, and adopted inexplicable defensive facings. The positions adopted seemed to have no regard for known enemy forces, terrain or nuffin'.

Actual attack orders are for me not noticably different from those of the last patch- the larger the HQ, the more days of aimless chuntering up and down etc. Sorry, but in the absence of an historical explanation I have to conclude that it really doesn't work.

Nice to have the Maleme Allies in supply though

Edit: I've been using confusing terminology here, mixing command load with capacity. Changes in underlined italics.

[Arjuna]

You will need to change its estab in the ScenMaker app. Open SM. Go to the Units tab and select the 7th Hussars Regt HQ unit. Double click it to open its unit data. You will see the Estab control just below the name. You need to drag in and drop a new estab from the Estab tab on the side bar. Go to the Estab tab view. Find the estab you want. Drag and drop onto the Esatb control of the Unit data window. It should highlight as you do this. The new estab will then appear.
 
However, having said that you should check to see that the new estab is the right one. Make sure it is part of the same nation and service and that its of the right type and size.
 
Finally you will need to save your scenario. The original scenarios are read only to stop them from being ovewritten accidentally. I would recommend you you Save the scenario under a new name and retain the original.

[Arjuna]

Alternately go to this thread where Richard has already modified the scenario: [:)]
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1736681
 

[Mehring]

Thanks Arjuna, I just learned a bit about scenario editing

[Mehring]

Speaking of command loads, can anyone explain why the 1KRRC battalion HQ, with a capacity of 5, is loaded to 20 when it only has its subordinates attached to it? It is itself subordinated to 6RTR Regt HQ, which command capacity is, commanding also its own subordinates, exceeded by 1 (load 6, capacity 5)

[FredSanford3]

I don't know the exact algorithm for calculating the "load", but I'll wager it has something to do with that astonishingly low staff efficiency. Apparently the 1st KRRC's ops officer is a drooling monkey.

[Mehring]

Drooling monkey? Spiffing, what? Let's have some more of them!

[Mehring]

That's highly plausible. I just found units with command loads of 4 and nothing under their command at all. All are with equally low staff efficiency (13-15%). And I'd always thought a command capacity of 4 meant a command capacity of 4, regardless of staff efficiency.

[Johnus]

Simovitch:

Don't want to seem like a total idiot, but exactly how do you get to "British Line" forces to get to the A15 type regimental HQ ???

Thanks.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Johnnie

Simovitch:

Don't want to seem like a total idiot, but exactly how do you get to "British Line" forces to get to the A15 type regimental HQ ???

Thanks.

OK I'll give it a shot. If any of you need me to do this because you own a pirate copy and it did not come with the Scenmaker manual Dave and I will hunt you down and beat you.

1. Start the Scenmaker and open The clash of armour scenario. you will find it in the Scenarios folder.
you will see 3 tabs on the left side, Scenario - Units - Estabs
2. You can either find the 7th Hussars HQ unit on the map, or from the 'Units' tab under: Allies->XXX Corps->7th Armoured Division->7th Armoured Bde->7th Hussars HQ
3. Double click 7th Hussars HQ either on the map or on the Units tab. The Unit Data table should pop up for 7th Hussars HQ.
4. going back to the left 3 tabs, click the Estabs tab.
5. find: sides->Allies->Britain->British Line->1m-uk.ad-Arm Regt HQ-A15
6. drag that estab over to the Unit Data table over the current (wrong) estab and drop.

Hope this helps.

[Johnus]

simovitch:

I follow your directions and all seems to work. Then I save the scenario as "Clash of Armour Revised" and start up game. It loads, but the 7th Hussar HQ has not changed. I think I am making the change correctly but I am not saving it, somehow ??

[Johnus]

Simovitch:

Finally got it. Thanks for your help. I was not hitting the OK button which saves the change. Thanks again.

[simovitch]

good to hear.[:)]

[Arjuna]

Mehring,
 
If you send me a saved game ( from COTA Patch 3 ) I'll check out and advise why the staff load is that high.
 
I would like to clarify that "capacity" is not measuered in number of units. Rather, it is a simple numeric value - ie number of points. Different subrodinate units create different load points depending on the relationship to the superior. Eg organic count as half a point, same size count double etc. See the manual for the chart at the back that explains all this.

[Mehring]

Arjuna
I've emailed a saved game but its easy to replicate from the openeing of the scenario. My biggest surprise is that the staff efficiency is not a constant value. I've just found that the values go up and down in the course of a game. In the game from which I posted the above screenshot, the KRRC battalion HQ is currently at 64% efficiency, in spite of the bashing it's taken, while a number of Arty units remain at 13-14% as at the beginning of the game. In the new game, the KRRC HQ also begins with 64% efficiency, the Armoured HQ to which I have subordinated it, 61% staff efficiency.
 
In any case the load of 20 on KRRC HQ occurs regardless of curent staff efficiency.