Any chance of some new screenshots please?

[bradfordkay]

I'd say that depends, Termie... Chez mined the Malaccan Straits in order to nail my subs, but one of his own TFs hit them first... I kept my subs from passing through there until the miefield dissipated, so that minefield hurt him more than it did me.

Possibly AE will not give me the report of his ship hitting his minefield so that I couldn't re-route my subs...

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I've seen both, but your post implied that mines sink more friendly ships than enemy ones, which is wrong in every way.

I just don't want to see the AI sinking it's own ships, now that it uses mines!

[Terminus]

Overall, mines won't sink more friendly ships than enemy ones. They don't today, and they won't in AE either.

I really wouldn't worry about this if I were you guys; think of how many ships you lose on your own minefields today. The AI won't face worse odds with its minefields in AE.

[bobogoboom]

Great stuff guys thanks.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The description is under the same Fog of War rules as everything else.

Will this new Fog of War apply to SIGNIT or will you still see both sides SIGNIT reports?

[Mobeer]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

Though the mining looks good at first, the AI is mining homeland bases on 21 December 1941. If mines deteriorate over time, then is this not a waste of supplies?

I'm not exactly sure the AI would know when to mine it's own ports. After all, there are mines at larger ports when the war began. And the AI does not continue mining forever. Once ports get to a certain level, it stops.

Minefield Tenders can preserve the mines, and the AI can lay more if necessary.

I think that is about the best that can be done, but I am always open to better ideas.

But remember, this is the AI we are talking about. Better ideas must be defined in precise detail.

Well how about this for defensive mining:

- objective is to stop or seriously hurt invasion forces
- need to decide where to mine and how

Priority for mining a base as a function of:
(i) value of defending the base
(ii) threat level of invasion
(iii) threat level to the minelaying task force
(iv) value to the defence of laying mines
(v) other issues

Then there is the problem item - availability of forces

I don't know what means there is for the AI to assess each of factors 1-5; I hope it does already. Please tell me it does. If not, then as simplistic approaches:


(i) Value of defending a base =
(score value to own side+score value to enemy) * (port size+airfield size + port potential+airfield potential)

It might then be advisable to add the value of nearby own bases divided by their distance, so that places like Pagan become worth defending to prevent Saipan being threatened.


(ii) threat level of invasion

Again a primitive measure:
Find x nearest enemy bases traced by sea hexes. Use airbalance (available despite FoW?) divided by distance in hexes and average for those x bases. High values are a bad sign. Average these values over several days.


(iii) threat to the minelayers

A function of the air balance at the base being defended - the number of visits from enemy shipping. Average values over several days. Low values discourage mine laying.

This would be improved by considering the danger in obtaining new mines as well.

An issue here is that if trying to stop bombardments then frequent enemy visits suggest the mining is more worthwhile. I have assumed that the objective is to discourage invasion an avoid surface combat in doing so, hence the negative rating on enemy ship presence.


(iv) value to the defence of laying mines

The biggest issue is that as mines are laid, the value of laying more mines should begin to decline. This factor needs to be strong enough to prevent the same base being endlessly mined. Similarly if mine laying task forces are enroute, their mines should be included in calculations, perhaps at a discounted rate.

Also, mines are of little value if there are no troops to hold off a weakened invasion force. On the other hand, strong coastal defences protect mines so make mines more valuable. How to calculate a simple metric here eludes me.


(v)
A few things I have considered but failed to included above:

- is the AI advancing or retreating; defensive mining make more sense in the latter. Perhaps a metric of days base held and days into war could be used, with the days into war effect being inverted for the allies.

- if tenders are available then mining is a better option as the mines can be maintained

- some element of randomness in mine laying keeps the player guessing

- if much friendly shipping is present, the risk of friendly fire discourages mining



And then, availability of forces:

Everything above tries to decide which bases need to be mined, perhaps with some rating of how important the mine laying is. I hope most of the above can be calculated by formulae based upon past turns, without optimisation, decision making or the like.

The problem area is what forces should be allocated to mining, and how should it be done. Firstly, should minelayers lay defensive mines, offensive mines, escort convoys or be under repair? Should supplies be used for laying mines, or something else? Then given ships of disparate capabilities, how should these be used effectively?

Hopefully the AI already decides this matter by itself, but anyway, this problem cannot be solved by an approach to mine laying alone. Now I'm stuck.

[Don Bowen]

There is logic to determine what ports should be mined. Nothing anywhere as complex as this.

[joey]

I find the logic with regards to mining from Mobeer is on the money. I don't find it all that complicated. It just seems to be the simple way to determine what requires mining. I've used a similar method for years.
I am still interested in hearing more about Signit and fog of war modifications.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: joey

I find the logic with regards to mining from Mobeer is on the money. I don't find it all that complicated. It just seems to be the simple way to determine what requires mining. I've used a similar method for years.

I too like many of his decision factors. However, we should be cautious in making statements about perceived "complexity" until such time as we see how malleable the AI truly is. What might be a simple decision on the part of a human player can require a vast amount of coding and/or reference to data points that can't be captured in the code.

[LaM]

Moonlight : 76% :O Does this affect sub operations on night ?

[Menser]

Task force Naming ..Awesome ...... Can the Allied player make an empty task force and label it Task Force Thirty Four? [8|]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Menser

Task force Naming ..Awesome ...... Can the Allied player make an empty task force and label it Task Force Thirty Four? [8|]

No, cause you can't make an empty TF.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Menser

Task force Naming ..Awesome ...... Can the Allied player make an empty task force and label it Task Force Thirty Four? [8|]

Without resorting to the Romulan cloaking device, you could make a dummy TF with any "junk trawler"........[:D]

[Menser]

Sorry guys ............. Task force 34 was the punch line. (Battle of Leyte Gulf)

[Javakamp]

ORIGINAL: Menser

Sorry guys ............. Task force 34 was the punch line. (Battle of Leyte Gulf)

The world wonders.

[Knavey]

Hmmm...just noticed the naming of the TF feature.
 
Any chance in a later patch to get this expanded a bit further to allow a text field to be assigned to each unit so you could put notes in it?
 
It would basically mean you would have to have more characters than the name field, but I bet that is what most people will use that feature for anyway.
 

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The description is under the same Fog of War rules as everything else.

Will this new Fog of War apply to SIGNIT or will you still see both sides SIGNIT reports?

Yeah, I'm interested in the response to this too. And will each player NOT see in the operations text and on the screen when enemy aircraft sight their task forces with so much reporting detail?

Generally, I guess the question is how much more Fog of War has been built into the onscreen and filed reports.