1815 (waterloo) Scenario Issue and Obs

[Adam Parker]

To Fix

Prior to the scen start, the VP summary window shows the capture of Moscow as worth 3 VP! This is just a descriptive error as the scen's VP list does not mention Moscow at all.

Initial Observations

The scen is only 4 turns long, so more of an operational puzzle. Playing as the French vs a British/Prussian AI, the AI knows how to fight - attack, counter attack and re-take any VP's cities.

[Adam Parker]

As Britain/Prussia vs a French AI, the AI absolutely attacked pressing for both the Brussels and Antwerp VP locations and took out some enemy corps. Given only 4 turns and the ability of the Coalition to refit its troops on the field, it fell short at the gates of Brussels.
 
Of interest there are no VP's for unit losses in this scen. Yet to explore others. This makes it tough on an attacker but a benefit for the defender.

[Adam Parker]

Finally tried one more option with this scenario. Played as French vs Coalition AI. With no Scenario time Limits.
 
Something really funny happened. The AI thinking that no time limit meant the duration of a big war and likely with no production available, though defending Antwerp, Brussels and Leige (the objective cities well) at the outset very well, after turn 4 started evacuating its forces to save England!
 
So I ended up taking everything but as the scen had no end limit, I couldn't technically win! The scen just keeps going and poing until you exit [:D] Ah well, back to the humiliation of 4 turns to get this thing done. I've gotten a draw as the French but a win looks impossible.
 
Good small scenario AI.

[berthier]

I've just started playing, and like you Adam, didn't bother to read the rules just jumped into 1815. The scenario being so short allows for multiple replays in a few hours and I've probably played six times as French and once as the Allies. As the Allies it was a cakewalk..as the French the best i've managed is a draw three times (Brussels captured but nothing else). The scenario is primarily a puzzle to be solved, so deeper reflection will have to wait till I've had more time to play.

The scenario is entertaining enough to learn the system and I have to say I am fascinated by the period portrayed. Many years have been spent studying and learning from a large variety of sources and like many of the commentators on the forum I've been seeking "THE" Napoleonic wargame for over twenty years. What that actually means I've realised is harder to define (for me anyway) than what it is not. I've played Crown of Glory, Campaigns on the danube, Tiller's napoleonic battles etc and all have in their way missed whatever it was I was after. Often this was because they included stuff that detracted from what I wanted depicted, namely the Napoleonic Wars- too much micromanagement of production or diplomacy (the whole "spies" exercise in COG left me cold) or distorted scales and ridiculous tactics (charging with artillery as if a blitzkreig was one memorable moment years ago). I liked Campaign on the Danube but it was just too limited in scope, COG I found needlessly complicated and i've avoided EIA due to the ambivalance on the forum over how it plays.

So we come to first impressions of Commander NAW. Well you have to suspend your disbelief to start with..the scale seems all wrong ("artillery" bombarding two hexes which must be 100km) but clearly the designer is from the school of "design for effect" as opposed to "design by inclusion of everything". You could compare it to SPI Napoleon's last Battles versus GMT"S The battles of Waterloo. The first is a delightfully crafted design for effect game, simple and elegant  ....whereas The Battles of Waterloo is complex in a way only Berg can be (perhaps a rule for mistaken unit identification due to the rain effects on poorly dyed uniforms of the day...you know the sort of stuff he does sometimes). Well, I like the old SPI game and I didn't like Berg's Waterloo. Similarly on first impressions I quite like this Commander series, understanding that it is "design for effect"...the tactical grognards out there who want lines, squares, mixed order and columns will hate it, the EIA devotees will look down with disdain thinking it way too light, but for the rest of us it may well suffice for now. It isn't "THE" game I'm searching for, but that won't ever happen because by my nature I'd never be satisfied whatever was released [;)]. Nevertheless on my quest to find perfection I'm happy to stop and drink from this cup for a while..

Daniel

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: berthier

as the French the best i've managed is a draw... The scenario is primarily a puzzle to be solved... you have to suspend your disbelief to start with..the scale seems all wrong ("artillery" bombarding two hexes which must be 100km)...

Daniel

LOL! Daniel I just posted these exact same observations in my Second Impressions thread! [:D] Glad I'm not alone!

And ditto on the draw!

[Arsan]

The scenario is entertaining enough to learn the system and I have to say I am fascinated by the period portrayed. Many years have been spent studying and learning from a large variety of sources and like many of the commentators on the forum I've been seeking "THE" Napoleonic wargame for over twenty years. What that actually means I've realised is harder to define (for me anyway) than what it is not. I've played Crown of Glory, Campaigns on the danube, Tiller's napoleonic battles etc and all have in their way missed whatever it was I was after. Often this was because they included stuff that detracted from what I wanted depicted, namely the Napoleonic Wars- too much micromanagement of production or diplomacy (the whole "spies" exercise in COG left me cold) or distorted scales and ridiculous tactics (charging with artillery as if a blitzkreig was one memorable moment years ago). I liked Campaign on the Danube but it was just too limited in scope, COG I found needlessly complicated and i've avoided EIA due to the ambivalance on the forum over how it plays.

Hi
Daniel,

Have you checked AGEOD'S Napoleon's Campaigns in your search for "THE" Napoloeonic game?

It's not perfect but it sound like it could be similar to what you re looking for: a wargame (detailed, historical, no economy or diplomacy...)
The biggest downside of the game is that it does not have a "Big campaign". There are like 20 scenarios and campaigns of the different Napoleonic wars.
There is a demo you can try.

Regards

[firepowerjohan]

One thing I am considering for patching is to adjust length of scenarios. If you could help me and point out what scenarios are too long or too short let me know. For example, the 1815 could be increased to 5 turns instead of 4, would that make it even more fun ?

[McGlu]

Adding one more turn to the Waterloo scenario would definitely make it easier for the French. I probably lost it 1-2 times, stalemated 6-7 times, and won once before I went on to the next scenario.

I'm not sure that adding another turn would make it more fun, though. Not wining was what made me come back again and again. When I finally got the win, it felt like an accomplishment.

I'd need to try it from the other site to see how much harder defending is vs. attacking.

[berthier]

Arsan
Thanks for the suggestion, I actually have the Ageod game but haven't got around to playing it yet so I'll give it a look...when I have time from playing this game!

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

One thing I am considering for patching is to adjust length of scenarios.

No I don't think that would do it Johan. I think you need to change your Victory criteria themselves.

Eg: See below. How can this be just a draw for the French? Blucher is "dead" for 9 turns, Wellington is "dead" for 26 turns (that's 6 months in game terms in this scen folks)! There's hardly any Coalition strength left on the map and the game calls this a draw?

[patchogue]

That'll be beause the Russians and Austrians are rampaging through Alsace/Lorraine and Murat's got himself shot again [:D]

[McGlu]

I just tried the 1815 Waterloo scenario from the Coalition side and won on the first attempt. So, I would definitely like to see what it would be like with one more turn.

As the French, many games I found myself wishing I had one more turn. As the Coalition, I was glad the AI didn't have one more. [:)]