NATO vs WP in The Next War turn 2

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the three major categories of losses for the WP side as of the end of turn 7:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a movie showing the WP moves in T7:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's how the air war went. Note that I made bou cou airfield attacks with my SSMs so that Roger lost a boat-load of planes. I'm especially lucky to have destroyed the F-15's and a lot of his F-104's.

[toawfan]

Larry, as Warsaw, wins with my unconditional surrender as Nato, after just 7 humiliating turns.

There is no point in fighting on. This was our second game of Nato/Warsaw 1979 with Larry and me switching sides. Stunning that I can't come close to putting him away in 15 turns in Game 1 and he has destroyed me in 7 as Warsaw. If this wasn't my first AAR and second real game, I should be even more humiliated.

The Austrian surrender in Larry's Turn 7 finished me off and I wasn't smart enough to see it coming. I failed to pay attention to the scenario briefing noting the importance if he captured Salzburg, Graz and Linz. He got all three and there was a 50 percent chance of this surrender.

The list of my Austrian forces withdrawn as a result of this surrender goes on for more than three pages so I have nothing left to defend with. You have broken my lines and done so much damage all over with paratroopers that it's a lost cause.

It's a great lesson on how to use everything you've got so effectively. You did it so boldly that I'm hoping I can make that fail in future games when I know what I'm doing with artillery, helicopters and paratroopers.

The final score was 1530-1470 (me/you), a "marginal defeat." But the overwhelming defeat was inevitable and there was no sense in prolonging. My first AAR exposes me to the public rookie humiliation that I expected. But I love this game. It's fun. You've taught me a lot and I learn far more from these kind of punishing losses than any arrogance I would have gained from a win.

The friendly loss penalty was 461 and enemy loss penalty was 255. This number swung dramatically against me with the Austrian surrender and was not possible to improve.

Rather than prolonging this unnecessarily for either side, let's continue and see how far I can go with Game 1 and then go to Armageddon 2015 and see how much I've learned. (Look for a future AAR from the professor and his pupil).

I hate to lose; but it doesn't feel nearly as bad in light of me being a rookie; your veteran experience; and, most of all, your patience and wonderful help on all my questions.

[toawfan]

Final damage report from NATO HQ as we clear out our desks, shred documents, hide records from WikiLeaks: [&o]

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: toawfan

The Austrian surrender in Larry's Turn 7 finished me off and I wasn't smart enough to see it coming. I failed to pay attention to the scenario briefing noting the importance if he captured Salzburg, Graz and Linz. He got all three and there was a 50 percent chance of this surrender.

The list of my Austrian forces withdrawn as a result of this surrender goes on for more than three pages so I have nothing left to defend with. You have broken my lines and done so much damage all over with paratroopers that it's a lost cause.

It may be a lost cause, but I'm pretty sure you've misinterpreted the list of withdrawn units. They appear to be the Danes, Austrians, and the Dutch. I expect only the Dutch were actually withdrawn on turn 7. The others were withdrawn earlier.

It took me a while to figure out why the others kept showing up over and over, but I think it's because you were playing the older version of the scenario. It hadn't been updated in 3.2. Prior to version 3.2, there was a bug in TOAW that kept destroyed units from being withdrawn - so they could reappear via reconstitution. To prevent this, I had added a series of extra withdraw events at regular intervals, to clean up any rebuilt units that might have occurred. Once TOAW 3.2 fixed that bug, those events were removed in the later version.

So, most of the listed withdrawals were bogus and were directed at units already withdrawn. (I know that's confusing - sorry about that).

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
...you [are] playing the older version of the scenario...

So um.....is the updated version posted somewhere so I can get my grubby hands on it? Rugged Defense or somewhere?

[toawfan]

Documentation says we're using Nato vs. Warsaw Pact Tension Scenario v 5.1 for TOAW 3. Wouldn't that be the newest?

[1_Lzard]

Well, I've got 'The Next War' in ver 3.2.29 etc, which is a bit better than your version, done in 3.0.0.0.......

I'll mail it to Larry, eh?


Kurt

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
...you [are] playing the older version of the scenario...

So um.....is the updated version posted somewhere so I can get my grubby hands on it? Rugged Defense or somewhere?

Both versions are included with TOAW III (if 3.2 is installed) in the Modern - NATO/WP subfolder.

"The Next War 1979 - Tension" is the older version (5.1) with the extra withdrawal events. (Isn't this the one you were playing)?

"The Next War 1979" is the newer version (6.0) without them. It is a combination of the "Tension" and "Sudden War" variants.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: toawfan

Documentation says we're using Nato vs. Warsaw Pact Tension Scenario v 5.1 for TOAW 3. Wouldn't that be the newest?

No. That's the older one.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 1_Lzard

Well, I've got 'The Next War' in ver 3.2.29 etc, which is a bit better than your version, done in 3.0.0.0.......

I'll mail it to Larry, eh?

It's included in 3.2, 3.4, etc.

[larryfulkerson]

Yeah?  But I installed 3.4 and just now replaced the one I had with the one you just sent me.  Thank you berry much, btw.  So maybe Roger and I were playing
TNW - Tension ???  Just a thought. 

[1_Lzard]

Roger's post indicated you guys were playing 'Nato vs. Warsaw Pact Tension Scenario v 5.1' which would be the 'old' one....

Anyway, all's well that ends up there, eh?

[toawfan]

Yea. So I lose on a technicality. Yeah. That's my excuse.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: toawfan

Yea. So I lose on a technicality. Yeah. That's my excuse.

I honestly can't imagine a more difficult scenario to tackle as a beginner. Especially against Larry. There's a bewildering horde of tactical and strategic issues to sort though - and no time for a learning curve.