Assigning/Forming New Support Units question

[PyleDriver]

I like a flak unit in every corp. If they get a leader roll during a counter they eat up Soviet armor...

[Santayana_slith]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Agreed. I actually see a trend that most generals tend to commit artillery, pioneers and AA more often than not. What they don't seem to commit is armour units for some reason.

That's a trend I've noticed too, admittedly from a small sample.
Maybe the testers can confirm if there is any obscure factor involved in the assignment of armor.

[amatteucci]

Perhaps, it's only a guess, because most leaders have an infantry rating greater than their mechanized rating, so they're failing their rolls when trying to commit armour more often that when they're trying to commit other types of support units?

[vinnie71]

That could be a reason. Thus I tend to attach armour directly to those infantry formations which are either at the spearhead or with motorised units. I'd still have to test putting mobile formations on reserve to back up static lines...

[ComradeP]

Hmm, that makes me wonder too. The mech/infantry rating should only affect the combat potential of the units of the respective type, but what I'm not sure of is whether it has an effect on support units too. I'll ask on the tester forum.

[Zoetermeer]

So, just to be clear: using 'assign/form' at any level (army group, army, corps, division) does not actually create a brand new support unit, it always reassigns an existing one from a higher HQ? The Axis doesn't have the capability to create new ones at all?

[Davekhps]

Figure I'll post my question here...

Last night, was messing with the Road to Leningrad scenario (again... just can't beat it as the Axis no matter how fast and hard I hit, grrrrr).
 
After getting comfortable with reassigning support units around my HQ chain, I wanted to try to maximize by use of Construction Battalions by moving the bevy I had in Army Group North to a lower HQ, in this case the 101 RHG I had sitting behind the Novgorod area.  With my RRC unit I had already extended my rail network along a single line past Riga, but I wanted to get the CBs filling out the supply network near the front versus wasting time in the rear areas.
 
First experiment: go to AGN, reassign all the CBs to 101 RHG.  Didn't change any of the support levels, didn't lock any headquarters.  Next turn, I've discovered that all the CBs are back in AGN instead of 101 RHG.  Oh well.
 
Second experiment: go to AGN, reassign all the CBs to 101 RHG.  Change support level in AGN to zero, didn't lock any headquarters.  Next turn, all the CBs are back in AGN-- nope, that wasn't it.
 
Third experiment: go to AGN, reassign all the CBs to 101 RHG.  Don't mess with support levels, but lock AGN.  Next turn, all the CBs are now in 101 RHG (yay!).
 
Next turn... all the CBs are still in 101 RHG, but they're not doing anything.  Turn after that, same deal, just sitting in the HQ but not going out to repair rail or dig in.
 
Soooo, what am I missing here?  How do I get this to work?

[ComradeP]

So, just to be clear: using 'assign/form' at any level (army group, army, corps, division) does not actually create a brand new support unit, it always reassigns an existing one from a higher HQ? The Axis doesn't have the capability to create new ones at all?

For the Axis assign/form: is assign only as they can't create units. For the Soviets it can be either assign (if such a unit is available) or form (when 0 units are available, a new one will be created). Combat units for both sides can only assign support units.

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Davekhps: Army groups and fronts have a hard coded support level setting for 16 construction units and 4 engineer units, and they overwrite the level of others, so even if you set the level 0, it will still be at that level. The only way to prevent the movement of support units like that is to lock the HQ, as you observed the third time (although I'd advise locking the lower HQ you want them to be in). When construction units are in a corps level HQ, they'll only repair rail hexes in a 5 hex radius from the HQ. They don't appear on map when assisting in fort construction, so you can't see whether they're doing so.

[Davekhps]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Davekhps: Army groups and fronts have a hard coded support level setting for 16 construction units and 4 engineer units, and they overwrite the level of others, so even if you set the level 0, it will still be at that level. The only way to prevent the movement of support units like that is to lock the HQ, as you observed the third time (although I'd advise locking the lower HQ you want them to be in). When construction units are in a corps level HQ, they'll only repair rail hexes in a 5 hex radius from the HQ. They don't appear on map when assisting in fort construction, so you can't see whether they're doing so.

Thanks, I got all that. What I didn't understand was why the CBs in the corps HQ didn't do anything after I placed them there. The rail network in the 5 hex radius around the HQ (based in Pskov) was still damaged, yet the CBs never deployed to fix them.

Interestingly, later on in the scenario I had CBs deployed in other HQ units (such as 4 Panzer Army) that did deploy just fine. Ditto the other army units.

Now that I've written it all out here, what I'm saying is that I've seen CBs deploy out of OKH, AGN, the army HQs... but not corps HQ (at least, not out of a corps HQ directly attached to AGN instead of an army, e.g. that 101st RHG that I had assigned directly to AGN).

I guess tonight I'll try to "break" the system again a bit to understand what's going on here... perhaps if I attach 101 RHG to an army vice the army group, the CBs will deploy?

[Flaviusx]

The range for rail repair on CBs attached to corps HQs is very limited, and if your corps HQs are too advanced, they probably won't deploy at all because you cannot repair rail unless it begins repairing from a railhead.

Eventually as the either your advance slows down and the railheads catch up (or both) the CBs attached to corps would begin to deploy. But in 1941 as the German you should keep them attached to the army HQs and up for best results.

Edit: however, late in the year, as the winter approaches, you'll want to pull back some of the CBs to corps HQs to help dig fortifications. So there's a tricky balancing act.

[ComradeP]

Davekhps: could you post a screenshot with the rail overlay ("r" key on the keyboard) activated for the area where the RHG HQ is?

[karonagames]

There was a late rule change (that is in the read me file) that prevents CBs repairing within 5 hexes of an enemy units. They also only repair rails behind the railhead.

[ComradeP]

And so the same confusion pops up every day. According to the what's new document, that distance limits applies to Soviet units in the first few months of the war. However, several statements have been made suggesting that the limit applies to Axis units too, so which one is it? The what's new document says: only for the Soviets.

[Joel Billings]

Just applies to Soviets.

[karonagames]

I think we need the judgement of Joel. I have to admit I took the info from the dev forum update, but it got wiped when the next update came out.

[ComradeP]

While typing that, Joel answered the question you were going to ask him.

[Davekhps]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The range for rail repair on CBs attached to corps HQs is very limited, and if your corps HQs are too advanced, they probably won't deploy at all because you cannot repair rail unless it begins repairing from a railhead.

... and even money says that's exactly why the dang CBs never deployed, d'oh! I hadn't yet repaired the rail network close enough to that HQ, so the CBs never had anywhere to go.

I'll reload the save tonight and see if that solves it.

(Oh, and good to know that the Soviets also have the distance restriction in place. The Axis sure don't-- my Army CBs were repairing right behind the lines-- so I would have surely been might frustrated once I got around to playing as the Soviets).

[Davekhps]

Okay, I'm at the end of my rope.

I've just loaded, reloaded, and loaded again multiple turns at least a dozen times. No matter what I do, I can't get the CBs to stick in the armies or corps I assign them to. Even with everything locked, the CBs assigned to the armies inevitably float up to the Army Group (AGN) they're assigned to.

Moved the CBs to OKH, then moved them down to AGC, then 9th Army. Won't stay in 9th Army, either-- they end up going up to AGC, regardless of locking.

Someone mentioned a command limit for CBs... if this is exceeded, do the units lose ALL the CBs?

What I don't understand is that I somehow managed to earlier assign CBs to AGN armies-- 4th Panzer Army has some native CBs that seem to stay there just fine, no locking/unlocking required.

I'm clearly not getting something here, or missing a rule. I'm okay with leaving all my CBs in OKH or Army Groups, but my understanding is that we're supposed to have more flexibility than that...

[Davekhps]

Separate post for separate subject, a feature request:

When manually reassigning support units from the headquarters screen, the process works like this:

1. Right click HQ in unit bar
2. Right click support unit assigned to that HQ
3. Left click HHQ
4. Left click a new HQ

After step 4, the selection screen disappears. Which means that if you want to continue reassigning support units assigned to that HQ, you have to go back to step #1, and repeat for as many SUs you reassign.

It'd streamline this process if after step #4, you are sent back to the main HQ screen displaying all the assigned support units that you reached after step #1.

(Ideally, the game would let one select multiple support units at a time for transfer, but barring that mechanic, it'd be nice to not have to save the step of re-opening the HQ window again).

[Flaviusx]

This is very strange. It shouldn't be doing that with the HQs locked.

The only thing I can think of here, is that the HQ are advancing so fast that the CBs working on rail repair wind up out of their range for HQ RR purposes, and the AI is kicking them up the chain of command until they wind up migrating to the AG level over time.

But even so, that's pretty buggy behavior.