CAP question

[inqistor]

If you are expecting one strike, you should keep maximum CAP percentage, but when there will be some sweeps before, you should keep it low, to allow bigger number of planes at the end, when bombers come.

To see it in-work, check PzB AAR about previous operations in Burma (not the one which are happening now).

Fatigue seems to skyrocket, especially during LRCAP, but it depends of number of extra pilots. I remember, that in WITP whole turn rest "cured" 12 fatigue, so it was 0.5 point per hour, so AM/PM rest can not generate much fatigue difference.

[JeffroK]

I try 60-70% in the frontlines, 30-40% in areas Netty can attack.

The only exception is where I have a large number of defenders and I want to escort an attack (though I also have some dedicated escorts with 0% CAP.

I also like to keep fatigue below 25, seem to be able to rotate sqns through this OK.

PS   What do people suggest, Sweep or Escort setting??

[inqistor]

Escort have some gigantic disadvantage for fighters, so sweep is prefered.

For escort use some expendable plane types.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

If you are expecting one strike, you should keep maximum CAP percentage, but when there will be some sweeps before, you should keep it low, to allow bigger number of planes at the end, when bombers come.

To see it in-work, check PzB AAR about previous operations in Burma (not the one which are happening now).

Fatigue seems to skyrocket, especially during LRCAP, but it depends of number of extra pilots.

Ok not really anything new here. [;)]

I remember, that in WITP whole turn rest "cured" 12 fatigue, so it was 0.5 point per hour, so AM/PM rest can not generate much fatigue difference.

Concerning your last sentence, either I do not have the intellectual capacity to understand what you are talking about, or its a combination of false assumptions, weird math and some no brainers.

Just a few comments:

- Does AE "cure" 12 fatigue? Because thats what counts. WitP is an old story. Fatigue recovery depends on a couple of dice rolls, so even if it is correct thats only an average.
- 0.5 points per hour? I guess you are the first to introduce this concept into AE, never seen an "hour" before. The smallest scale is 6 hours, everything below that refers to a timely order without
further implcations on scale.
- Ok even so, you seem to claim that the average fatigue "cure" per phase is 6. Its quite irrelevant whether this is correct or not, because there is no "AM/PM rest". You seem to think that this
means the difference between a pilot flying and a pilot on rest is something like 6 per phase. This is wrong.
The difference in fatigue between a pilot on duty and one off duty is: any fatigue gain of the on duty pilot.
The result could well be above 50, depending on mission type. Still think thats "not generating much fatigue difference"?


Edited because weird math seems to be virulent... [8|]

[dr.hal]

For those of us in games where radar is yet a pipe dream (still early '42) this is an important discussion. A key factor to remember is that in 100% cap you do not get 100% of the planes in the air but only about 1/3 of them (remember no radar). Thus if you need a heavy defense I don't think there is any choice, 100% cap is the way to go. This is particularly effective against a coordinated strike. The problem is that in an uncoordinated strike (something as an offense player you usually want) the attack comes in waves and against the first one or two waves, you have A/C up, but after that it is down hill. But I don't see anyway around it. As you have no idea if the attack is going to come in waves or coordinated.

Sandman, I don't see your question as a detour, it is a good one. In a low threat area to me there are two threats to counter, one is the search A/C of your opponent so you need a 20% setting or so to try and shoot them down (but still a low probability) and then there are subs, so I put a number on ASW patrol (a good use for BB and CA/CL search A/C IMHO). In a high threat environment if you are ALSO contemplating a strike and need to have escorts, then the high I use is about 40-60% depending on how much I want my strike to get through if launched. But my primary concern is to preserve the carries (at least in the early years of the war) as A/C can be replaced, carries are more problematic. If you don't want to send out a strike I might go as high as 70-80%. However I do believe fatigue is an important factor to keep track of for carrier A/C as it seems to impact landings (crashes and deaths of pilots, loss of A/C). Which leads me to a question for the folks on the forum, do carrier operations accelerate fatigue? To me, it seems that carrier pilots, especially cap, get tired pretty quickly, which is dangerous (in comparison to land A/C including cap)... thoughts???

[GreyJoy]

I tend to always keep a 10% rest and 30% CAP...it seems to work pretty well if you have Radars at your bases

[sandman2575]

thanks everyone for the feedback re: my Carrier question -- i'm trying to get back into this game after a long hiatus.  these forums and you guys who contribute are indispensable ...

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
- Does AE "cure" 12 fatigue? Because thats what counts. WitP is an old story. Fatigue recovery depends on a couple of dice rolls, so even if it is correct thats only an average.

I have no idea how it works in AE, but I am pretty sure, in WITP it ALWAYS cured exactly 12 fatigue, when unit was set to rest (train 0%). You can see every pilot fatigue, so it is easy to check, not checking averages, but checking every pilot individually

- 0.5 points per hour? I guess you are the first to introduce this concept into AE, never seen an "hour" before. The smallest scale is 6 hours, everything below that refers to a timely order without
further implcations on scale

Check what michaelm writes about Naval Search procedure, in Tech forum. It is based on HOURs endurance, in some cases.
Also, my experiments in "AVGAS" topic, have shown, that pilots make THREE CAP missions per day, and I do not even know, if there could be some extra, if they make emergency take-off because of detected enemy. Dividing by hours seems safer for future calculations.

- Ok even so, you seem to claim that the average fatigue "cure" per phase is 6. Its quite irrelevant whether this is correct or not, because there is no "AM/PM rest". You seem to think that this
means the difference between a pilot flying and a pilot on rest is something like 6 per phase. This is wrong.

Actually, how many phases are there for pilots? I actually see 3:
AM
PM
Night
Now, are they rest in one of the phases, if they fly only one day phase?
If they fly only short mission, does they rest for the rest of the turn?
Does flying at Night have different effect, than flying at day?
Does every phases are equal (have 8 hours), or maybe day, and night have both 12 (so AM/PM have 6)?
I do not know the answers, and I have no idea how even to check it

The difference in fatigue between a pilot on duty and one off duty is: any fatigue gain of the on duty pilot.
The result could well be above 50, depending on mission type. Still think thats "not generating much fatigue difference"?

That was actually about your earlier assumption, that fatigue is cured at the end of day. 6 (or 4, if there are 3 phases) points is not much difference, like between ie. 40, and 34 fatigue.
Now, there is possibility, that pilot generate fatigue even when resting. Just by "living". So maybe it generate 40 (?) points every day + some more depending of mission - daily rest 40 - x*hours of resting (so mid-day they will be at 50).
Maybe we could compare fatigue generated by long-range transfer, with same-range combat mission, to get some numbers?

[LoBaron]

I think you missed what I wanted to explain.

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
- Does AE "cure" 12 fatigue? Because thats what counts. WitP is an old story. Fatigue recovery depends on a couple of dice rolls, so even if it is correct thats only an average.

I have no idea how it works in AE, but I am pretty sure, in WITP it ALWAYS cured exactly 12 fatigue, when unit was set to rest (train 0%). You can see every pilot fatigue, so it is easy to check, not checking averages, but checking every pilot individually

Maybe, maybe not. Does AF size have an impact? AF damage? Attacks on the AF? Malaria? Weather? Anyway, doesnt change what I wanted to point out.

- 0.5 points per hour? I guess you are the first to introduce this concept into AE, never seen an "hour" before. The smallest scale is 6 hours, everything below that refers to a timely order without
further implcations on scale

Check what michaelm writes about Naval Search procedure, in Tech forum. It is based on HOURs endurance, in some cases.

Hours endurance is a byproduct of speed and range values. Nothing more. The result is used for game engine calculations, that does not mean the game counts hours passing
by.

Also, my experiments in "AVGAS" topic, have shown, that pilots make THREE CAP missions per day, and I do not even know, if there could be some extra, if they make emergency take-off because of detected enemy. Dividing by hours seems safer for future calculations.

Maybe 3, maybe 4 maybe 2. Does not really impact the discussion.

- Ok even so, you seem to claim that the average fatigue "cure" per phase is 6. Its quite irrelevant whether this is correct or not, because there is no "AM/PM rest". You seem to think that this
means the difference between a pilot flying and a pilot on rest is something like 6 per phase. This is wrong.

Actually, how many phases are there for pilots? I actually see 3:
AM
PM
Night Correct, but irrelevant. I was probably wrong to introduce the concept of hours into the topic at all, instead of sticking to phases
Now, are they rest in one of the phases, if they fly only one day phase? Possibly, but also irrelevant
If they fly only short mission, does they rest for the rest of the turn? Possibly no. A mission takes place in one phase, even if it takes longer than as virtual limitation. What does that change?
Does flying at Night have different effect, than flying at day? If yes, does it make any difference?
Does every phases are equal (have 8 hours), or maybe day, and night have both 12 (so AM/PM have 6)? Again, does it make any difference?
I do not know the answers, and I have no idea how even to check it

The difference in fatigue between a pilot on duty and one off duty is: any fatigue gain of the on duty pilot.
The result could well be above 50, depending on mission type. Still think thats "not generating much fatigue difference"?

That was actually about your earlier assumption, that fatigue is cured at the end of day. 6 (or 4, if there are 3 phases) points is not much difference, like between ie. 40, and 34 fatigue.
Now, there is possibility, that pilot generate fatigue even when resting. Just by "living". So maybe it generate 40 (?) points every day + some more depending of mission - daily rest 40 - x*hours of resting (so mid-day they will be at 50).
Maybe we could compare fatigue generated by long-range transfer, with same-range combat mission, to get some numbers?


Whether fatigue is recovered between every phase (doubt it, but doesnt make much difference), or once every turn, may impact the pilot fatigue in PM phase (for example),
but it does not change a whimp about the simple fact that the fatigue difference between a pilot flying and a pilot not flying is the fatigue gain of the pilot flying.
This has nothing to do with fatigue recovery because both pilots recover fatigue.
The answer to your questions would not impact the topic in any way.