AI Disappointment

[Macclan5]

Disclaimer: I think I may be deemed an apologist for the AI - so be it. [8D]

The AI as I recall randomly selects one of 12 different aggressiveness scripts at game start. Having played through 3.5 games I have been impressed with the variations I have experienced.

(The Midway variant was indeed one of my experiences as well; A Normantown invasion was another; a deep push into Canton Island and Fiji was a third)

But..

1) Most players (Allied or Japanese) have the benefit of almost perfect historical hindsight.
We bought the game because of our interest in the history of the subject. That translates to the tendency to rush troops, supplies, logistic support to key bases you deem critical to your long term objectives. The Allies did not have such perfect foresight in 1942.

2) What is your real objective ?
What is wrong with the pure objective of massively defeating the AI given the above ?
One experienced veteran poster responded to me once - his objective was to win a decisive victory by December 1942 (Victory Points Ratio). I inquired if this included the invasion of Tokyo - it did not; but it is his preference - great if he so enjoys.
I define my game objectives as the capture of Tokyo. I play on despite achieving the required ratio of VP points. I do find the AI very capable in defense through 1944.
I tend to disagree with "allowing the AI" early wins - but that is my preferred play style (*see 4 below).

3) House-rules.
Many good ones mentioned above.
Only ship fuel in tankers
Only rearm ships where an AKE or AK is present
Obey or adhere to stacking limits. Use DaBabes mod that imposes much harsher stacking penalties
One I personally think should be more often implemented : Off map ship movements of supply and fuel REQUIRE an escort; at least 1 for every 10 ships. Minimum would be a Armed Merchant Cruiser (AMC) or DD / DE. Rationale - this reflects the German menace of Uboats / German Raiders in the Atlantic through 1943. Your would be surprised how precious those escorts are in the early days and how long it takes to assemble critical mass to ship "off map" when you want to optimize i.e. Eastern USA to Capetown supply routes.

4) No re-load challenge.
The AI never gets hurt feelings if you reload a turn. I get it.
However depending on your personal objectives - don't reload. Make a house rule.
Or limit your reloads - 1 'mulligan' per year maximum.
The game is incredibly detail rich. They ability to pump out 'one perfect turn after another' without some 'brain dead settings'; further without the benefit of a reload adds another layer of complexity to playing against the AI. You will suffer reversals.
Nimitz never had a 'mulligan' [8D] He took calculated risks. Emulate Nimitz. Don't reload past turns.

Bottom line - a game against the AI is what you choose to make it.

A game against a human opponent may indeed be your best ultimate solution; and may be humbling as well [8D]

[RichardAckermann]

I do partially agree. The AI does a fine job most of the time. But there are weak spots. The AI does not respond well to threats or kill zones. I can win the game as japan by using almost only subs alone. Another time I captured and held the solomons, which became a happy target shooting ground for my aircraft, as mainly unprotected allied AKs tried to invade there for months.
I think a good AI should challenge you without having house rules to play "dumb". If creating a good AI on a game this scale is possible is another question.

[adarbrauner]

A game-winning tip: play 3 days turn;

the AI cheats; he can modify missions at the start (!!!) of his turn, maybe even at the start of each night-day impulse, everyday, while we are bound to the orders we gave;

please, if you try this remember to tell how many ships AI's Wildebeests have torpedoed, if you play Japan historical, in first two-three turns (remember please to keep a clean language in this eventuality) and how fast have lost your carriers, if you play Allied (well, the same for Japan if you are not hyper careful);

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

I have restarted my game after my first attempt last week and got a major victory by winning the Battle of Midway 2 weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbor. But since then, the AI keeps sending its carriers against Midway. A couple of weeks ago (in game) there was a single carrier that sortied against Midway, but my carriers were too beaten after doing battle with 3 carriers to be of any benefit. Now, it looks like the last 3 carriers of the KB are coming for Midway again. This is really frustrating. Not because its ahstorical, but because its a waste. Right now I have TF Z as well as a few CA/CL TFs running round the DEI blowing up unescorted invasion fleets. Heck, just today, I sank an invasion fleet with a report of 20K ground casualties. While this would be cause for celebration, it almost seems too easy. Where are the Japanese surface ships? Where are the carriers? The KB should be in the DEI and/or South Pacific supporting the advance of invasion fleets, not wasting time bombing Midway. I don't know if this is a result of me holding Wake, or just the fact that there are 20 random AI scrips and I got one script that has a focus on Midway. Maybe I need to be more patient, but I am thinking about starting one of AndyMac's May 42 campaigns just to give the AI a better chance by starting the game at the height of Japanese expansion.

Have you tried updating the AI and deleting the non-historical scenario variants?
tm.asp?m=4257473

[Rogue187]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

I have restarted my game after my first attempt last week and got a major victory by winning the Battle of Midway 2 weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbor. But since then, the AI keeps sending its carriers against Midway. A couple of weeks ago (in game) there was a single carrier that sortied against Midway, but my carriers were too beaten after doing battle with 3 carriers to be of any benefit. Now, it looks like the last 3 carriers of the KB are coming for Midway again. This is really frustrating. Not because its ahstorical, but because its a waste. Right now I have TF Z as well as a few CA/CL TFs running round the DEI blowing up unescorted invasion fleets. Heck, just today, I sank an invasion fleet with a report of 20K ground casualties. While this would be cause for celebration, it almost seems too easy. Where are the Japanese surface ships? Where are the carriers? The KB should be in the DEI and/or South Pacific supporting the advance of invasion fleets, not wasting time bombing Midway. I don't know if this is a result of me holding Wake, or just the fact that there are 20 random AI scrips and I got one script that has a focus on Midway. Maybe I need to be more patient, but I am thinking about starting one of AndyMac's May 42 campaigns just to give the AI a better chance by starting the game at the height of Japanese expansion.

Have you tried updating the AI and deleting the non-historical scenario variants?
tm.asp?m=4257473

Yes, I am playing the December 8th start. I know it has 20 AI script variations and the one I got seems to have a KB focus on Midway. After playing a bit, I can now see how powerful TFZ is without it being actively hunted by the Japanese. There are just so many juicy, unescorted invasion fleets running around that would be excellent target practice. My preference would be the historical Japanese moves for about the first 6 months, then open ended after that. That way my goal would be to slow the Japanese advance until better equipment comes on line. After that, it can do anything it wants.

I really need to do a May 1942 start to fight the war I want to play. I am just having trouble spending ANOTHER 10 hours doing set up again!

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

It occurred to me today that with all of these in house rules, recommendations to not be too aggressive with the AI, etc, what is the point of playing the game before May 1942? If the AI isn't good enough to react to the player and you have to make so many sacrifices in order to give it a fighting chance, why play any game against the AI from Dec 7th onward?

You will still learn many things just by playing. For instance, if you play as in a PBEM, you'll learn where your SLOC's should go. How many troops you need here or there, and how and where to get them from. What bases to build to what levels. How to get resources to said bases and from where. You'll see how your pilot training progresses and what adjustments to make. I can't even list all that you'll learn just by playing, and you'll be less frantic playing the AI. BTW that's how the Allies should play as they really have little to fear in the long run. My biggest goal as a Japanese player will be to get the Allies to react before they're ready, its the only way I can win. Beat the Allies piece-meal.

If nothing else, as long as you keep certain things in mind, the AI is a good learning tool. Heck I've been 'learning' for about five years now.[:D]