The Velukie Luki gambit seems bad?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: beender

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Joneleth vs The "Femtomanager" Telemecus discussing the string theory of WITE logistics [:D]

Couldn't find better expression to describe my impression![&o]

I do feel we have treated nano and pico very badly. I thought the issue used to be micromanagement - and suddenly we have skipped over those two and gone straight to Femto?

ORIGINAL: Joneleth
Then use the other 2 FBD to double FBD from Lublin-Rovno-Kiev, there is alot of curves in that area which would make double FBD alot better, and then focus on going to Odessa-Crimea from Romania so you have a solid supply at all areas.

I would put a word of caution on this. Many people who start the game first try to make rail routes on this route - and all eventually drift to a more southernly route. Inspite of the victory points and historical significance of Kiev it is not very important in game terms. The key objective for your troops in the south is the industry in the Donbas - which means the southern rail repair to Stalino/Makeevka/Gorlovka might need to be the priority. Also railing your FBD to Rumania has a very similar effect to concentrating rail repair in the Baltic zone. Rail repair gets further east by starting further east in Rumania - even if delayed until after Rumania unfreezes. Even if repairing towards Kiev, you might still be better of doing it out of the North East of Rumania perhaps?

If interested you can see a rail repair map I proposed for one game here tm.asp?m=4250683&mpage=5 see start of post 134

There is also a lot of discussion about FBD routes under a very old forum thread called something like "Life without FBD5" that I really recommend reading. Even though there is now a Rumanian "FBD" it does need to have extra construction units in it to get a full RRV and withdraws.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Joneleth

is VL gambit just a placebo strategy?

Any strategy can become a placebo strategy & any placebo strategy can become the thing to do. This all depends on the opponent you are playing and how well you can adapt to the situation. If you play this game and follow a strategy line by line like a computer program you are going to get your butt handed to you. If you can adept and foresee things then you do well. To me there is no placebo strategy, nor is there a strat that will work 100% of the time. Good luck in your endeavor.

[Joneleth]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joneleth

is VL gambit just a placebo strategy?

Any strategy can become a placebo strategy & any placebo strategy can become the thing to do. This all depends on the opponent you are playing and how well you can adapt to the situation. If you play this game and follow a strategy line by line like a computer program you are going to get your butt handed to you. If you can adept and foresee things then you do well. To me there is no placebo strategy, nor is there a strat that will work 100% of the time. Good luck in your endeavor.

True im not disputing the value of mind games. Im mostly just trying to confirm theres no real substance behind the VL route, so if your going that route its solely to try and psyche out your opponent.

There is a difference between a strategy that has no mechanical value and a strategy that does despite of any mind games you might try to do.

[Crackaces]

@Joneleth

The VL strategy all depends on situation.

Let us say that the Lvov pocket does not go so well and lots of Soviets escape. Add that .. The Soviet Pskov defense stop AGN cold. Now AGN is trying to find a way with the Soviets in a strong position maybe close to 5M manpower. Going through VL is simply going to seal the German defeat.

Now let us assume AGN has done well and are haunting the Neva. AGS has pocketed multiple Soviet units and is haunting D-town with a threaten crossing at multiple points. AGC has bagged much at the land bridge .. the Soviets have 4.2M manpower. Striking and pocket units at and around VL becomes icing on the cake.

Two extremes of the spectrum. As a German you have to first focus on pocketing as many Soviets as possible and destroy the Soviet air force while advancing toward industry that you force the Soviet to make some decisions. I personally don't think a certain avenue of advance but figure out what the Soviet is going to give me .. they cannot defend it all and if they do they defend nothing.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Joneleth

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joneleth

is VL gambit just a placebo strategy?

Any strategy can become a placebo strategy & any placebo strategy can become the thing to do. This all depends on the opponent you are playing and how well you can adapt to the situation. If you play this game and follow a strategy line by line like a computer program you are going to get your butt handed to you. If you can adept and foresee things then you do well. To me there is no placebo strategy, nor is there a strat that will work 100% of the time. Good luck in your endeavor.

True im not disputing the value of mind games. Im mostly just trying to confirm theres no real substance behind the VL route, so if your going that route its solely to try and psyche out your opponent.

There is a difference between a strategy that has no mechanical value and a strategy that does despite of any mind games you might try to do.

This is not Star Wars and the Jedi Mind Games. It is simple and no mumbo jumbo required to understand it. Read the map from recon & figure out your opponent as quickly as possible and plan accordingly. Then make your strat and adapt when needed as quickly as possible. To me, the overcomplication here is going to make this difficult and that is what this is turning into. I still stand by what I wrote above.