"Paths": Why do we need these things? Who wants them in the first place?

[mogami]

Hi, You can be as critical as you want. No one will jump on you. The forum has lost the posts that began what I think you are refering to. There was no jumping for quite a while.

A bug is when the program produces unintended results. It should be reported in bug forum and not used as example of game play. (Many well known bugs require house rules and are being fixed in WITP)

Sometimes the game in it's intended performance produces results not all people agree with. Some of these are results from players using their units in ways that do not duplicate historical uses. (Another house rule or new opponet issue)

And then of course there are things some people just don't like.
Feel free to express any issue you like however you like.
Of course other posters might not agree or have ideas to fix your problem or provide examples, we hope it does not become a personal issue.

There is no benifit for anyone from that. There are no points scored here.
I would hope the exchange from as many people as possible would produce something the majority could accept. Have fun. (we are talking about a game here.)

[Mike Scholl]

Yeah but how do you know the computer will pick the right hexes? It makes lots of mistakes now. When you want it to go one wy it goes somewhere else. The more player control the better I think.

It's my first post and have only played the other game uv for awhile so don't get angry with me jumping in so soon. From what I can tell really critical people get jumped hard here, even for obvious faults of the game. Why?

Doubt you'll get "jumped" over this post. First, you forgot to call anybody
names, or insult the intelligence of everyone who might dissagree with you.
Most of the people who post here have rather strong opinions about the games
discussed. They'll generally listen to reasoned points of view, even if they
then fire back a dissagreement with everything you said. But some of the
poster's can't seem to avoid adding insult to dissagreement---and those posts
can ignite quite a vociferous string of replies. The other thing that will keep
your post "safe" is that it deals with a basic piece of game design. You might
get a couple of arguments about difficulties in programming---but you didn't
step on anyone's "sacred historical cows". Try suggesting that your favorite
airplane was "the best" (and toss in that several others were "over-rated) if
you want to generate some "hot" replies.

Oh.., by the way, I agree with you that "more is better" when it comes to
adding waypoints....

[Peter Weir]

What do you mean posts got lost? Whose posts? Why?

I dom't have big problems with the uv as a game as far as enjoyment goes and want to play witp asap. I do see though plenty of posts that haven't been "lost" apparently and from what I can tell some threads are mostly about a few people all the time trying to shout down another person who keeps talking about game mistakes in uv and improvements he wants to see in witp. So I take it posts from this person with the complaints and othjers who responded have been deleted by the company? for what reason? Were people swearing back and forth or what?

How did this start, what problem is there wanting a game about history to be more realistic? Uv is a good game but then I can see why people wouldn't hold it be completely accurate in all ways. The person with the critical comments seems together if hard to get along with, but that's OK. I gues he doesn't care about that. Some things he's written sure ring a bell with me from what I know from playing uv, Some other stuff I'm not sure about but research might prove that right.

I do't want to start a big deal over this. I've read posts on this board off and on for a year or more and kept my mouth shut in lurker mode since I bought uv, trying to learn to play it better and see what's cooking with witp. I signed up today for some reason--just in time for real war?

[mogami]

Hi, No sorry, the posts are still there you just have to dig them up.
'A quick list of USN Bias' and 'USN bias (cont)' (up in UV forum) I think in the course of these 40 or so pages every problem with UV/WITP is brought up. Also what is being done in way of changes. I think you'll find the sides are rather even.
(Some say Japan too strong some say Allies too strong. I figure that means the truth has to be somewhere in the middle.

Also you'll be able to see posters do not get picked on by everyone no matter what they say.

The threads are on a public forum where they can be freely assessed. But you should start at the beginning. The first thread was begun back in early July I believe.

[tiredoftryingnames]

Yeah but how do you know the computer will pick the right hexes? It makes lots of mistakes now. When you want it to go one wy it goes somewhere else. The more player control the better I think.

It makes mistakes around land and by going close to enemy bases. I know that. But what I'm saying is it doesn't take 10 or 20 waypoints to get around a path that isn't acceptable. If a TF, by using the present system goes close to an island on it's way to it's destination it takes 1 waypoint to move the path, say S 15 hexes of that island. The AI would plot straight through empty ocean to that point S of the island and then from that point to the destination it would plot again through empty ocean to the destination. If you think of it, it's the same as using the current system now of giving your TF an empty ocean hex as a destination to get S of the enemy and upon reaching that spot giving it it's final destination order.

If another island is in that path then a 2nd waypoint would get you around it. Straight lines between carefully placed waypoints will get you where you need to go. I have written up requests for waypoints for WITP and I've looked at the map and the paths and know that a few would work fine. The only way you would need many waypoints is by traveling from the West Coast south of Japanese held islands up past Austrailia through the NEI to Columbo. Not many ships can make that trip without refueling so you're going to be stopping in Austrailia or meeting up with tankers anyway to refuel so it's a two stage journey with neither stage requiring many waypoints.

[Tristanjohn]

What do you mean posts got lost? Whose posts? Why?

I dom't have big problems with the uv as a game as far as enjoyment goes and want to play witp asap. I do see though plenty of posts that haven't been "lost" apparently and from what I can tell some threads are mostly about a few people all the time trying to shout down another person who keeps talking about game mistakes in uv and improvements he wants to see in witp. So I take it posts from this person with the complaints and othjers who responded have been deleted by the company? for what reason? Were people swearing back and forth or what?

How did this start, what problem is there wanting a game about history to be more realistic? Uv is a good game but then I can see why people wouldn't hold it be completely accurate in all ways. The person with the critical comments seems together if hard to get along with, but that's OK. I gues he doesn't care about that. Some things he's written sure ring a bell with me from what I know from playing uv, Some other stuff I'm not sure about but research might prove that right.

I do't want to start a big deal over this. I've read posts on this board off and on for a year or more and kept my mouth shut in lurker mode since I bought uv, trying to learn to play it better and see what's cooking with witp. I signed up today for some reason--just in time for real war?

Not a war, really. Some of the folks here are a bit sensitive to criticism is all. As you noted the game's fun to play, no doubt about that--a benchmark for a Grigsby game, always in my experience at least. My problem (well, my biggest concern) is that UV seems to have been more or less "lifted" from Gary's earlier game Pacific War (ever play that one?) both in terms of specific game mechanisms and philosophy--with regard to the latter that should read "pro-Japanese at the start" which was always silly and won't ever get anyone closer to the truth of the actual history.

Having said as much as you can see from a few of Mogami's recent AARs from his testing of WitP at least one area of concern in this regard (the air model) at least seems to have been toned down a bit at least in FvF engagements, and if so that's very good news indeed for anyone who cares about the simulation's historicity score.

Anyway, most of the people here are okay. A few I view as being somewhat less than fully "matured" but that's an old story with online forums and there just isn't any solution for it barring censorship, which, by the way, I'm always unalterably opposed to in principle.

What's your story, Peter?

[Mike_B20]

Watch out Peter, lest you end up in TJ's personal menagerie

[Peter Weir]

Hi, No sorry, the posts are still there you just have to dig them up.
'A quick list of USN Bias' and 'USN bias (cont)' (up in UV forum) I think in the course of these 40 or so pages every problem with UV/WITP is brought up. Also what is being done in way of changes. I think you'll find the sides are rather even.
(Some say Japan too strong some say Allies too strong. I figure that means the truth has to be somewhere in the middle.

Also you'll be able to see posters do not get picked on by everyone no matter what they say.

The threads are on a public forum where they can be freely assessed. But you should start at the beginning. The first thread was begun back in early July I believe.

Thanks for the info. Iread the threads you senmt me and plowed through most of the mass in this forum too to get a better idea of the players in this soap opera. Mostl;y I couldnt see much to holler over. There's a heckof a lot to think about tho in terms of the game itselfand they way it plays--you guys do put a lot of effort into these discussions, especially this tristanjohn guy and another called timjot with what appears to be much study outside of the foum as to the details of what they want to get acorss. Pretty good talk all the way around from what I can tell.

Witp is certainly on my must-buy list, Mogami, I only hope the designer and you guys who test this software have the time to get all the detsails and faults dicussed on the straight and narrow. I've seen errors inn the game for myself but some of these guys have opned my eyes to other thiungs wrong. I played it again last night 9found a buddy for pbem on this forum--thanks for help there!) and saw somestuff I read about in those threads and sure enough theyre not lying about it.Good game even so.

[Peter Weir]

Watch out Peter, lest you end up in TJ's personal menagerie

Myabe i should keep my mouth shut but as long as you're willing to chirp up why shouldn't I? I told mogami I read the stuff he told me about with all the arguing and whatnot and one thing i noticed pretty qwuick was the baiting that goes on from some people at least. Not a lot just a few but how many does it take?

This tristajohn guy does dish it out,no question he can rankle, but if you ask me I don't balme him so much when I see posts like this from you!. You're begging for trouble, Mike, and its not my biz but why not just keep the talk on topic and avoid the arguments completely? if you cant agree with what he says or someone else let it go. Tomorrow always comes.

OK back to lurk mode. Hard hat on here!

[Mike_B20]

Myabe i should keep my mouth shut but as long as you're willing to chirp up why shouldn't I? I told mogami I read the stuff he told me about with all the arguing and whatnot and one thing i noticed pretty qwuick was the baiting that goes on from some people at least. Not a lot just a few but how many does it take?

This tristajohn guy does dish it out,no question he can rankle, but if you ask me I don't balme him so much when I see posts like this from you!. You're begging for trouble, Mike, and its not my biz but why not just keep the talk on topic and avoid the arguments completely? if you cant agree with what he says or someone else let it go. Tomorrow always comes.

OK back to lurk mode. Hard hat on here!

It was meant as a friendly warning...*notices the TJ indoctrination and tranquilizer dart protruding from Peter's hide*...
but I fear I'm too late

[Peter Weir]

It was meant as a friendly warning...*notices the TJ indoctrination and tranquilizer dart protruding from Peter's hide*...
but I fear I'm too late

Yeah I'm friendly enough and don't expect to be hit by many darts, leastwise not large ones. Just wanted to say my piec eon that issue but not telling anyone how to go about their own biz.