ModSwapper & Panther Leo and What It Means

[David Heath]

Hi Guys

Let me set the record straight. Panzer Leo is developing H2H the way he sees fit. Matrix is not requesting that he follows anything except what he wants.

David

[Wallymanowar]

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Guys

Let me set the record straight. Panzer Leo is developing H2H the way he sees fit. Matrix is not requesting that he follows anything except what he wants.

David

Not a problem David - as I understand it, it is just another mod we can now 'swap' out if we don't like it[:)]

[sami heimola]

I have a little proposal what comes to H2H mod. How about adding Spanish Civil War OOBs into it? And China too? If I remember right these were not in previous H2H version (not sure because I have not played H2H a long time)... Too much work for Panzer Leo perhaps[;)]?

[robot]

Here we go again a game for the computor wiz. While the uninformed or less knowing people of the workings of the computor are left behind. I have enjoyed spwaw since its conseption. All i want to do is finish the dam long campaign. Historical or non historical as long as it plays with no trouble. I dont play pbm and dont care about playin even. I dont even care if russia has 120 tanks to my 15. I dont care if a panther is priced 200 points double the points for a sherman. I just wont be able to use them in the battle.

I have restarted the long campaign at least 8 times now. I have never got up past december 1941. Although Germany, Russia,Japan, and the British have battles starting as soon as 1939 or early 40. America does not come in till late 41 or early 1942. I have nevere had to select a core force for America as i cant get to the time they enter the war.

Guys i will be 73 this year. Have had 2 major heart operations. Lets just leave it alone please. I would like to finish all the battles for all the major powers.

[Gallo Rojo]

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo

Sorry Orzel, but I disagree.
If both versions will be basically the same, which is the point of having two versions?

I like the concept that rare equipment cost more than mass produced equipment because it lures the players to buy more realistic OOB.
And is not true that H2H is "unbalanced" because of that. If you want a good and strong OOB all you have to do is buying the most comon units in your arsenal (and that works for the US, the USSR and for Germany too... If you play the Germans all you have to do is buying Stugs and PzIV, not Tigers and Ferdinands).

I have played docens of PBEM in the Eastern Front Theater using H2H both with the Soviets and the Germans and the game is balanced. I thik that is more balanced than the regular WaW (7.1 I mean ... that was the last official Matrix version I played and then moved to H2H)

If the new H2H version takes the same price system than the regular WaW version I'm afraid that I'll definitively abandon the Matrix SP and move to the SPCAMO version.

Ummm Gallo...you can disagree with me all you want but not for the reasons you stated...chiefly because that's not what I said. [:'(]

All I said was that it may be a good bet that the two OoB's will end up being very similiar...and that one version may have a mech.exe that is fine tuned for play against the AI while he other is left as is for Pbem. Again that's just a thought that I shared. I'm waiting to see the definite answer to RB's question too so that I'll know for sure.

As for anything being unbalanced...that wasn't me either. I actually don't mind the price point concept in H2H...just have been of the opinion that they needed just a slight bit of tweaking.

Ok. I had miss-undestood what you had said. [:)]

[Gallo Rojo]

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

Why do people keep getting bent out of shape about me buying whatever equipment I want? As long as my opponent has the same option I do, what business is it of anyone if two people want to screw around with historically accurate equipment in an ahistoric manner. I just don't get this holier-than-thow attitude. It is a game people! Why are you trying to impose your historic rigidity on others? You can have your cake and eat it too if price is based on performance. Think of all the fun equipment that is rare that will be relegated to 'never-used' if you took this thinking as far as you guys want to. Jeesh![:-]

Ok... I'm not a hard-core-realist in terms of OOBs...
My basic point (to ansewer to Orzel's post as well) is the following:
we have now the H2H which lures you to more realistic buyings
and we have the regular WaW which doesn't (except for the rarity)

So why don't we keept it the way it is! [:)]
Two modes for two types of players!

I had miss-undestrood what Orzel said before... I though he was advocating for modifying the H2H price sytem to get it closer to the official WaW

any way:
Rbrunsman, I think that you and I think in a very similar way:

You want a game with a price system that doesn't care about mass production (WaW)
and I want a game with a price system that does care about it (H2H)

Good news is that both you and me have it! You have the WaW and I have the H2H

my only point is: let WaW be WaW, and let H2H be H2H... you you and I can be both happy [:D]

My only worry was that I had understood that Orzel was advocating for using the same (WaW) price system for both modes.... since that wasn't the case I'll close my mouth and go back to my PBMs [;)]

[Rune Iversen]

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

Why do people keep getting bent out of shape about me buying whatever equipment I want? As long as my opponent has the same option I do, what business is it of anyone if two people want to screw around with historically accurate equipment in an ahistoric manner. I just don't get this holier-than-thow attitude. It is a game people! Why are you trying to impose your historic rigidity on others? You can have your cake and eat it too if price is based on performance. Think of all the fun equipment that is rare that will be relegated to 'never-used' if you took this thinking as far as you guys want to. Jeesh![:-]

Ok... I'm not a hard-core-realist in terms of OOBs...
My basic point (to ansewer to Orzel's post as well) is the following:
we have now the H2H which lures you to more realistic buyings
and we have the regular WaW which doesn't (except for the rarity)

So why don't we keept it the way it is! [:)]
Two modes for two types of players!

I had miss-undestrood what Orzel said before... I though he was advocating for modifying the H2H price sytem to get it closer to the official WaW

any way:
Rbrunsman, I think that you and I think in a very similar way:

You want a game with a price system that doesn't care about mass production (WaW)
and I want a game with a price system that does care about it (H2H)

Good news is that both you and me have it! You have the WaW and I have the H2H

my only point is: let WaW be WaW, and let H2H be H2H... you you and I can be both happy [:D]

My only worry was that I had understood that Orzel was advocating for using the same (WaW) price system for both modes.... since that wasn't the case I'll close my mouth and go back to my PBMs [;)]

If WaW 8.2 performs as advertized (and follows the tradition of 8.X) pricing accrding to rarity and useage will be a universal phenomenon. But given the current oversight of the project by the management itself, I believe that this might not be the case after all.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

I would love to teach RBrunsman the Conscript lesson I once taught a friend of mine in a game of ASL.

He too wanted to just be able to buy what he wanted, because he only wanted to buy what he wanted. The fact the game went out of its way to be accurate was I guess not important to him.

So he bought his SS with all the trimmings (because it was cool) and he bought the cool tanks, and he bought all the cool benefits.

Me, as Russian, I just spent all my points getting the most incredibly large pile of worthless bottom feeding crud possible.

So he set up his guys, there was like about 15 counters total.

Then he watched in horror as I placed first the games entire force pool of conscripts squads, then all the games 2nd line squads, then a large some of regular type squads.
Not one single vehicle, not one single gun, not one single special piece whatsoever.

And on my turn, I proceeded to shoot full of holes his entire force with garbage, mountains of garbage. Because remember, each one of those lousy squads gets to roll the dice eh. And even a conscript can hit something eventually.

It was a brutal lesson, and he never asked to play a DYO game again.

Which is what I would do to you Rbrunsman, each and every time till you realised, its a game set in a historical period for a reason.

Playing the game with well thought out rarity factors, means only one thing, absolutely no need for houserules about what is considered "gamey".

But even still, a game that has never been played before, would still suffer from a lack of paytesting and play balancing.
Which is why deliberate, planned, logical, historical games are the only useful way to use ones time.

It matters not what the games prices are. No one is likely to play me a game of Steel Panthers PBEM, simply because time is precious.

[Orzel Bialy]

Good Christ!

I'm not a mod here...but Lord Almighty let's drop it already.

Les, I understand what you are saying (I'm a fan of historical accuracy myself)...however, the fact remains that if people want to play the game with a different mindset then so be it. There should be a range of choice to pick from...and if you don't like one then you can play the other.

It's not a question of who is wrong and who is right...just a question of choice. Let us not forget that. [;)]

[m10bob]

Modswapper sounds like a utility we needed years ago!!!.
How many different "mods" will it handle?..I suspect even if only 2,Modswapper itself might lend itself to further expansion??..Maybe one of the "mods" could be the one RB is seeking??[&:]

[David Heath]

Guys

The great thing about coding the ModSwapper for Steel Panthers World At War is so that any one can make any changes OOB's included and promte what they like.

David

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Hey I don't have a gun to anyone's head here hehe

Why do you think I said what I said in the first post I made. How I figured this would only go nowhere. It did precisely that

I just find the arguments of some to be funny. You will have to forgive me if I laugh at what I call funny.
It never stops anyone from laughing at things I say that they think are funny

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Modswapper sounds like a utility we needed years ago!!!.
How many different "mods" will it handle?..I suspect even if only 2,Modswapper itself might lend itself to further expansion??..Maybe one of the "mods" could be the one RB is seeking??[&:]

Basically it can handle as much mods as you want. BUT of course it doesn´t make sense to install mods on top of each others (unless they don´t mod the same files). There is a mechanism in modswap that allows the modder to include a security feature into modswap files that prevent that you can install a mod on top of another. This is only to prevent bad surprises. And it´s strongly recommended that those guys making the modswap files look into this very very carefully.

[Akmatov]

Matrix - what a desert treat to top off SPWAW development! Many thanks!!! Personally I enjoy putzing around with 'what if' OOBs and weapons, so this will be pure joy for me. Release it whenever it is finished and then PLEASE get CL released ASAP! Not just because I want it, and especially the previously indicated Modern Mod, but because I, and hopefully all of us, want Matrix to be a commercial success so it can survive. Quality products are getting a bit thin on the ground and we need you to hang in there. [:)]

[rbrunsman]

Les, Les, Les, ask anyone I play and you'll find that your tactic of buying heaps of garbage probably won't work on me because I don't buy the expensive best of the best units (i.e. King Tigers and Easy8s, etc.). Newbies make that mistake. I don't. But, I'd sure like the opportunity to do it IF I FEEL LIKE IT. As O.B. said, it's about choice. You are advocating taking away the choice.

Anyway, with Modswapper it sounds like I COULD have the performance based OOBs that I want, BUT as Matrix is being hush-hush about what changes they made to the OOBs, how am I to put them back the way I want them? I'm not an expert at this stuff, I just like to play the game the way it was up to v7.1.

I'm not even certain the changes will be so big that it will make that much difference to me anyway. But how am I to know? As you can see, throughout this thread Matrix is ignoring this whole line of the conversation. If they would just say what their philosphy was and what point cost changes were made, I'd probably be satisfied. The refusal to address the subject is what bugs me the most.

Maybe I'm not [&o] enough for the Mods.

rb

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Opinions are usually worth notion until the item in question arrives of course.

Until I get 8.2 downloaded, I won't really be capable of saying anything worth saying

As it stands, I have the 4 MC all included 8.0d file, and it is my cup of tea. Basically because it installs all the MCs without fuss, and I really only like playing the MCs.

[Commander Klank]

I bet Panzer Leo gets the T-50's armor right in 8.2 H2H....

I hope[8|]

[Toivo]

Maybe this isn't right topic to ask but...
Since I haven't watched discussions on Matrixforums too closely (been busy winning war at Ostfront:) , has it been discussed and will it be fixed - the air bug? You know, the one where your opponent can fly over plane and watch VCR playback in slow mode and since plane shows off all enemy positions, could mark them down?

It would be REALLY nice news if I could finally use some aircraft in my battles.

Regards

[Gallo Rojo]

It was fixed in SPH2H.
I don't know in WaW

[Toivo]

You mean it was fixed and will appear as it should in new H2H with v8.2 right? Since in H2Hfr it's still bugged.

Regards