Air Threat vs Air Detection ? ?

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Greetings Fleet,

I am relatively new to Harpoon 3 and have a question regarding Nav Zones.

What is the difference between the Air Threat and Air Detection zones? Would you provide some examples in your explanation too?

Thanks!

[hermanhum]

There are no 'differences' other than organizational ones.

For example, you can order your ships to ignore Aerial Nav Zones and order your planes to ignore Sub Nav Zones. It all depends on the boxes you select for that particular unit.

For instance, the appended image shows a specific ship selected as the unit for the Nav Zone orders. This ship will avoid Sub Threat Nav Zone "A" and Air Threat Nav Zone "B". It will sail through any and all Surface-related Nav Zones as none of those boxes have been selected.

Glad to have you aboard, shipmate. [8D]

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Thank you Hermanhum for your explanation of the Nav Zones. I believe that I have an understanding of how to use the 'check boxes' associated with the various zones to exclude a untis entry into a zone.

A follow-up question for you would be is there any meaning associated with the terms 'Threat' and 'Detection' for the various zones?

[hermanhum]

No one has yet reported any difference between a Threat Zone and a Detection Zone. 

Just a word of caution.  When you set the Nav Zones for a Group, the individual ships do not take on those Nav Zone Settings.  (At least this was what happened in H3 v3.6.3. 

For example, if you set a Task group to avoid Surface Nav Zone [A], the group would have this setting, but, since you did not set it for the individual ships of that group, the individual ships of the group would sail merrily through any Surface Nav Zones marked [A].  I do not believe that this has yet been changed in ANW.  [:(]

[Cpt_Aubrey]

It would be convenient to make groups obey Nav Zones then too.

Maybe the folks updating H3 would do that for us.

[hermanhum]

That certainly would be nice. This one of the BEST features of the game. As a designer, I find this tool quite invaluable in controlling the movement of the AI forces. In fact, Freek Schepers has been quite innovative and adept in using them to control the movement of AI strikes. In fact, he is able to get the AI to attack their targets from any number of directions with it! [8D]

However, there are currently a crop of pretty significant bugs that seem to have arisen with ANW such as units simply ignoring them and moving right through them. Hopefully, this will be sorted out with a patch. [:(]

[jkruny]

With the new navigator that we are currently testing for the upcoming patch, all ship units in a group will navigate around an exclusion zone.

Testing continues, but it looks good so far.

[hermanhum]

I think that an interesting idea for scenario design might be to make aircraft obey the Nav Zone settings of their launch platform.

Currently, when a plane is launched in H3, its Nav Zone settings are automatically set by default to avoid All Aerial (Detection / Threat) Nav zones.

Would it be feasible to allow the plane to adopt the Nav Settings of the launching unit? This could allow for a multitude of additional behaviors as strike aircraft take a number of different approaches to their targets by avoiding Nav Zones. This would be especially useful for land bases since most bases are composed of a number of separate hangars. Each hangar could have different Nav settings.

It could get slightly more tricky with aircraft launched from carriers as those units move and already may be ordered to avoid certain Sub/Surface Nav zones. The ideal feature, IMO, might be the one whereby launching aircraft only adopt the Aerial Nav Zones set for their launching unit and ignore the Surface/Sub zones (like they currently do). [:)]

[Cpt_Aubrey]

I agree, would it be possible to set Nav Zones for a mission, say of F14s, so that when the current planes in flight land at their base, the subsequent planes that are launched for that particular mission obey the same Nav Zone settings?

[Cpt_Aubrey]

A follow-up suggestion regarding in particular aircraft and Nav Zones:

Wouldn't it be nice that when one creates a mission, that table for the Nav Zone settings is displayed expecting a the player to check off on the Nav Zone settings before the mission is accepted and started.

[hermanhum]

As an optional item, I would agree that it might be nice to allow the player a menu to select Nav zones restrictions when planes are launched.

However, if it were to be a mandatory item, this would likely a nightmare. Just imagine having to set the Nav Zone status for every single aircraft that launches in some of the moderate- to large-sized scenarios that have hundreds of aircraft. Also, multiply this requirement for the scenarios of longer length and you can see how this might be impractical. I think that we'd be spending all of our time clicking on Menu boxes. [;)]

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Hello Herman,

To clarify my last comment, what I would find useful is to launch some aircraft on a Mission for the purpose of an AAW Patrol. Rather than define the Nav Zones for each sortie of that Mission that launches (especially when using the 1/3 resource option when defining the Mission), I'd like to be able to define which Nav Zones the entire Mission is to obey when creating it.

EXAMPLE:

Mission created (6 F14s, 1/3, obeys restrictions for Air Threat zone A)
2 F14s (sortie 1) launch and automatically obeys restriction for Air Threat zone A
Sortie 1 returns to base.
2 F14s (sortie 2) launch and automatically obeys restriction for Air Threat zone A
Sortie 2 returns to base.
2 F14s (sortie 3) launch and automatically obeys restriction for Air Threat zone A
etc.

In this example, the user's intent of patroling an area only requires the creation of the Mission



What I believe happens is...
Mission created (6 F14s, 1/3)
2 F14s (sortie 1) launch and user must designate Nav Zones for sortie
Sortie 1 returns to base.
2 F14s (sortie 2) launch and user must designate Nav Zones for sortie
Sortie 2 returns to base.
2 F14s (sortie 3) launch and user must designate Nav Zones for sortie
etc.

In this example, the user's intent of patroling an area requires the creation of the Mission PLUS designating Nav Zones for each individual sortie that launches there after.


Hope that I'm making sense here. Of course, I could learn how to use the formation editor (something that the I am having difficulty wrapping my head around from the manual's notes particulary as it applies to restricting the number of planes in sorties) AND this puposed change would require that the BUG in the Nav Zone be fixed in order to not have sorties fly into restricted areas.

Happy gaming all. [:)]

[hermanhum]

Ah, you wish to add more functions to the Mission Editor menu! Well, I do concur with that wish. [:)]

As for use of the Formation Editor, here is an article from the Waypoint magazine, Dec 2003 edition that might help.

Waypoint Archives

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Herman:

Do you have a link for that article?

Thanks!

[hermanhum]

Waypoint Archives

The specific article is:

Waypoint_2003_12.zip

You may also find this thread useful regarding Formation Patrols:

Threat Axis Mechanics

[hermanhum]

You can also get the Formation Editor Manual.

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Thanks Herman.

I clicked on the Waypoint links but, that server didn't appear to be willing to give up it's secrets just yet. (webpage didn't open after a few minutes) I'll try again later.

THANK YOU very much for fielding my questions regarding Harpoon. [&o]

[Dimitris]

Links working on me just fine Cap.

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Sunburn - I am happy for you then. When I tried that link last, after about 2 minutes, I was not able to access that page. I'll try again later.

[Cpt_Aubrey]

Thank you all that have helped me locate information on using the Formation Editor.

The article in Waypoint is very enlightening.

[&o]