Estab Data

[06 Maestro]

TalonSofts' Campaign Series had a very good set up for equipment data-complete with effectiveness range tables. I wonder if any of the Dev Team are familiar with the Campaign Series-if so, perhaps you could make some comparisons between BFTB & the C.S. weapons data display.

[simovitch]

I played EF/WF to the point of exhaustion in the late '90's and the UI display of unit capabilities was pretty good as you say.

Panther Games is working hard to get similar information (pictures included) available to the player during gameplay, but I'm not sure if weapons range/effects are part of it.

[Arjuna]

Yes we will endeavour to include weapon range data ( min, max, effective ).

[06 Maestro]

That should do the trick- with a little experience. As we all know, engagements at maximum range is largely a waste of good ammo for many AT weapons.

At the scale of the AA campaigns detailed penetration capabilities are not necessary, but it would still be nice to have some idea of a good engagement range. So, for instance, should a Sherman tank fire at a Panther at 1500 meters, or is that just a paint scratching shot. The various infantry guns will need different fighting positions to take advantage of the best available terrain features, and still cover an expected engagement area.

No system will be able to completely eliminate the need for some good practical gaming experience, but a few solid hints will be nice.

My interest in this battle is once again rekindled; I’m looking forward to the release.

[hank]

This game is what I've been waiting for. 

One wish list item that's not related to Estabs but is related to how equipment is shown in the Equipment tab on the side menu.  In COTA you changed the icons for Armor from trucks to a small tank icon.  Tanks were shown as a trucks in HttR.  Good change.

I would like to see a larger more accurate graphic for the different tank types (i.e., Shermans, Panthers, Tigers, Jagdepanthers, etc. all look different ... it would be nice if you could look at the icons and tell roughly what kind of tank it is - I know its type name is shown but I like graphics to help with the immersion thingy)

... just a wish list item ... it may not be possible but I had to ask

Or, have an encyclopedia like SPWaW has. ... but then that's probably really asking for too much

[&o]

[Arjuna]

hank,
 
We aim to include the estab data for all equipment in the game. So when you click on an item in the E&S list you will see its data appear at the bottom of the list. This will include a small picture of the equipment ( approximately 96 x 48 pixels ).
 
Re the icon in the E&S list. Adding the Estab Data will shorten the list and reduce the number of items displayed in the list. Increasing the size of the icons for each list item would further reduce the number of items displayed. So I'm not in favour of this approach. In any event you will see a much larger image in the estab data when you select the item.

[hank]

Thanks ... that sounds good to me.  
Possibly, is there a quick pic somebody can post of say any armored unit or TD or anything really from the E&S list ... I don't have COTA so I can't go and check this out myself. 
 
This wasn't in HttR I don't thing but I haven't tried either ...

[Arjuna]

hank,

What you don't have COTA? [;)]

Here's a screen shot of the E&S tab view from COTA.

[hank]

If I clicked on the Cruiser Mk IIa icon would another window pop up at the bottom of the list with estab info for that particular kind of tank?
 
thanks

[Arjuna]

For BFTB, yes that would be the intention. Well, not so much another window as we would have a permanent pane in the bottom half of the tab view - ie the list would only go down halfway. The pane at the bottom would be blank. When you click on an item in the list it would be filled with data on that item, including a nice picture.

[hank]

That works for me.  I was just wondering if somebody had a screen pic of that little pane with how the info and graphic is depicted.
 
thanks
hank
 

[Arjuna]

hank,
 
Not yet.

[Major Disaster]

<Yes we will endeavour to include weapon range data ( min, max, effective ).

Will these ranges be shown graphically on the map so when you click on some weapon in the estab the range rings will change to that particular range?

[Arjuna]

Major Disaster,
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No that's not on our list yet but it is a nice idea. Adding it to the list now, though it might not make it into BFTB. Thanks.
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TT3263 - UI - Option to change Range Rings to currently selected weapon estab

[Major Disaster]

Cool! At least it is on the list! [:)]

[GoodGuy]

Good idea ! [:)]

[JeffroK]

Can I put in a no vote for this.
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We are playing a company level game, not at troop/indiv.Tank level.
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I believe this would be providing so much detail that it would not get used (and waste a lot of space and development time) or slow down the playing of the game so much that it would take longer than real time.
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A Div/Rgt/Bn leader knows all of this info, its all in their head. They tell a Company to take up a position and let them go. They dont (at least in WW2) get out the laser range finder and work out precisly where to put the 57mm AT gun, that comes with experience.
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My fear is that this type of enhancement will take the player far beyond what was possible at the time.
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(No problems with an encyclopedia idea though)

[06 Maestro]

The encyclopedia at a click is what I had in mind.&nbsp; The current range circles are fine-similar to C.S. system.&nbsp; My problem is not knowing if it is rational to fire a certain type of at gun at a particular type of tank (and so on) just because it's in range.&nbsp; A click on a master reference file could tell a player if a particular weapon had the ability to take on a certain type of targetat full range.&nbsp; Of course, the details would stick after a while (for the primary weapons, anyway).
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I don't think this is a tactical wish list; a commander should have a good working knowledge of his units capabilities.&nbsp; My in (multi player) game use of the various references would be minimal, but I would certainly use it to a great degree preparing for a game.

[JeffroK]

06 Maestro,
&nbsp;
I got the feel that people were looking for a SPWAW type detail,&nbsp;&nbsp;I think an encyclopaedia with a history, photo, basic performance info. Going into range and penetration data, IMHO, is too much . After all, the 3RTR HQ troops as shown has tanks, scout cars & infantry weapons. For this alone there would need to be reams of data.
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On the look out for a kick in the arse, i'd say that if players dont know the capability of the weapons then the game is beyond their ability to play.[8D]

[06 Maestro]

JeffK

The type of info system that I originally mentioned was from the Campaign Series. The weapons data bank was available from a drop down menu; one for the Allied side and one for the Axis side. It would appear in a separate window. It included range effectiveness graphs for different types of targets from each type of weapon in the game. Armor effectiveness was also included along basic data with a very brief history of each vehicle. Not only was this information very helpful in better/rational deployment of the various units, it added “immersion” for the game situation.

What Panther Games has offered is more than what I expected in that a small info screen would be available in the game screen-this is a more functional method, for sure. I am under the impression that most players would like to have this added info. This added info is clearly not a requirement to “play” the game, but it would certainly add to the depth of the game.

If someone is inclined to think a gun is a gun, is a gun, then perhaps they should get a checkers game and glue some toy tanks on each piece and call it a war game. On the other hand, if someone knows the capability (and I mean capability, not if they go "boom") of dozens of weapon systems that were in use 65 years ago, they need to get a life.[;)]

As far as it being "too much", that's a personal choice-many chose otherwise 7 years ago with other games.