WitP War in Russia Mod proposal

[HerzKaraya]

I've been longing for a good strategic game covering the Eastern Front in WW2 for a long time and Fremen's superb WitM mod has given me the courage to propose another one for the struggle in Russia using the WitP engine. This is not really well suited for Blitzkrieg type ground warfare, but nonetheless it's worth a try.
Below is a link to a little test scenario I've made about this idea, it's really basic - don't get excited, but can serve as a starting point. Please read the attached readme file.
CobraAus is doing his magic on a map of the area, Dixie is creating planeart and Fremen shipart, I'll work on the pwhex, but a lot more work will be needed in the future with OOB, TOE, etc... everybody is welcome!!! [&o]
Even a little help from Matrix would be appreciated if they converted nations 17 and 19 into Germany and Italy for example, that would solve a whole deal of problems (leader, pilot names for example - also for WitM).
Here's the link:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/bz143r

Bubi Hartmann

[Terminus]

Well, best of luck with it... It's an UNBELIEVABLY bad idea, but good luck...

[spence]

Noble as your idea might be I really think you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole. You might succeed with a big enough hammer but I think you're bound to get some pretty big cracks in the mold.

[jwilkerson]

I strongly second Spence's opinion.

The WITP land system is not remotely strong enough to simulate a major land campaign.

Try TAOW. That system is weak on air/naval, but you don't need to emphasize those aspects in russia but you have total control over the map and the units with an editor that is much easier to use, especially for the map!

[Sardaukar]

Weakest part of WitP is it's horrendous ground combat/movement/ZOC system. I'd not see any sense to use it for major land combat game when there are many way better systems available, like The Operational Art of War (TOAW).

[m10bob]

I agree with the 3 previous posters. The WITP engine portrays land combat VERY abstractly, and the major priority (I believe) of WITP was to give players the means to plan strategy and have represented the vastness of the entire theatre, and all military events leading up to the taking/retaking of certain areas of the theatre.
The current free offering by Matrixgames (WAR IN RUSSIA) to me, has always been the computerized version of the great/classic (paper) boardgame DRANG NACH OSTEN,(which itself would cover a ping pong table.)...

If you are really itching to modify the WITP engine, nobody has done the war in the Atlantic??

[el cid again]

Nations 17 and 19 will 100% crash the game at this time. It would be nice if they were ANYTHING other than just hooks.

Mark your calendars - this is a red letter day - for I completely agree with and second Terminus view.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Mark your calendars - this is a red letter day - for I completely agree with and second Terminus view.

WOW, this is a moment in time to remember. Las Vegas has the odds at 1.804-1 against it ever happening again.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Mark your calendars - this is a red letter day - for I completely agree with and second Terminus view.

WOW, this is a moment in time to remember. Las Vegas has the odds at 1.804-1 against it ever happening again.

Yeah El Cid responding with only three sentences is a momentous occassion indeed...another good excuse to pop open the Bubbly!!!!

[Terminus]

It's all terribly complicated...[8|]

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Mark your calendars - this is a red letter day - for I completely agree with and second Terminus view.

WOW, this is a moment in time to remember. Las Vegas has the odds at 1.804-1 against it ever happening again.

Yeah El Cid responding with only three sentences is a momentous occassion indeed...another good excuse to pop open the Bubbly!!!!

[:D][:D][:D]

[HerzKaraya]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the encouragement received!!!
Jokes apart, I appreciate the sincere comments of experienced modders and gamers like you. I knew from the beggining that this is a huge task - almost madness, but - isn't marriage madness too and almost everybody gets married???

TOAW is a fine game, but precisely the weak air system is a big turn-off for me, that's were WitP exceeds any other strategic game I've played.

Obviously, I wasn't pretending to use nations 17 and 19 now, I'll have to use IJA and IJN, that was just a suggestion for 1.805+ to make things easier for WitM, WiR, War in the Atlantic....

For the time being, I'm having fun playing other mods (RHS, WiM) and working little by little on the map, even if I'm just moving into a dead end.

[el cid again]

The problem is that the campaign you seek to do is a land one - and the WITP land mod is about its worst feature (given we can fix the map). Land combat kind of sort of works for islands. It does not work for fronts. But fronts are the main thing you have in the USSR. Not a good way to go. Now IF they fix same hex combat so it works (and there are ways) THEN...

[m10bob]

Bubi sez : "isn't marriage madness too and almost everybody gets married??? "




We don't marry for the madness..that comes later..[:@]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The problem is that the campaign you seek to do is a land one - and the WITP land mod is about its worst feature (given we can fix the map). Land combat kind of sort of works for islands. It does not work for fronts. But fronts are the main thing you have in the USSR. Not a good way to go. Now IF they fix same hex combat so it works (and there are ways) THEN...

Yes there are ways - such as hexside based ZOC's...but I doubt we'll ever see those [:)]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Bubi Hartmann

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the encouragement received!!!
Jokes apart, I appreciate the sincere comments of experienced modders and gamers like you. I knew from the beggining that this is a huge task - almost madness, but - isn't marriage madness too and almost everybody gets married???

TOAW is a fine game, but precisely the weak air system is a big turn-off for me, that's were WitP exceeds any other strategic game I've played.

Obviously, I wasn't pretending to use nations 17 and 19 now, I'll have to use IJA and IJN, that was just a suggestion for 1.805+ to make things easier for WitM, WiR, War in the Atlantic....

For the time being, I'm having fun playing other mods (RHS, WiM) and working little by little on the map, even if I'm just moving into a dead end.

Other issues you may run into are hard coded map references....

[Sardaukar]

Well..even Gary Grigsby's old (and matrix-revised War in Russia) deals with ground combat *way* better than WitP. And that's only the part about game engine... Hard-coded slots, map-making difficulties and non-moddable mostly scripted AI would make idea of adopting WitP to Eastern Front ideal for supreme masochist...[:D][:'(]

 

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Bubi Hartmann

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the encouragement received!!!
Jokes apart, I appreciate the sincere comments of experienced modders and gamers like you. I knew from the beggining that this is a huge task - almost madness, but - isn't marriage madness too and almost everybody gets married???

If it's something you really feel is viable, then go for it....people said the same negative things about a WitM mod and today it's a reality. You will face a challenge though, as a grandscale dedicated land campaign like Russia is not well suited to a same-hex land combat system. Admitedly, the old War in Russia game would do a better job here because it allows you to conduct maneuver warfare while the same hex system suits more static type warfare.

[Matto]

Hi Bubi,[/align]we tryed your East Front mod and must say that it is an interesting idea and you made a great work on it. Your work on units and equipment is precise. So do not stop it for all that some reactions here are not stimulating. If you will use correct map (what about part of map from WitM mode, where is south part of SSSR) it will be better for people here ...[/align]Great work and continue please[/align]

[Sardaukar]

What Nikademus said. If you feel it's viable, go on.

We are just trying to point that there are some difficulties to try to adapt mainly "naval" game into mainly "land" game.