Any work done on 2d game?

[RobertMc]

Hi--
Looking forward to this, but I was wondering if any work (improvement, that is to say) has been done on the 2d part of the campaign series, such as making the maps and counters larger and easier to read.
I've tried playing this 3d, but I get really tired of watching the three vehicles crisscross each other everytime they move.
I know I'm in the minority of hoping that the 2d game has been improved, but just asking.

[Hentzau]

Is the 2D part of this game series as legible as the 2D part of TOAW3?

[JudgeDredd]

I would prefer to play the game in 2D...but like you, iirc it wasn't very playable in 2D...so I'm with you....hoping it's changed.

And Hentzau, as far as I remember the 2D was never even close to be as playable in 2D as TOAWIII is. So I'm hoping this has changed, but I doubt it because I've read nothing about it.

[Jason Petho]

No, gentlemen. The 2D part of the game hasn't been changed.

I could look into updating the graphics in a mod though.

What are the specific complaints? What would you like to see changed?

I generally use the #4 and #5 views for strategic thinking, while play in the #1, #2 and #3 modes, mostly in #2.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[1925frank]

I'm confused.  My recollection is 1 and 2 are 2d large and small, and 3, 4, and 5 are 3d at three different scales (very close, close, and distant).  Are you saying you generally strategize in 3d but play in 2d or just the opposite?
 
I always played TOAW in 2d.  In the campaign series I generally played in 3d with a few exceptions.  First, at the start of a scenario, when trucks and vehicles are moved long distances, I prefer 2d because it's faster.  Second, sometimes the terrain in 3d mode is not clear (primarily hexsides, because most everything else is listed in the Unit Box), whereas in 2d mode everything is there if you know how to read it.
 
Other than possibly making the chips bigger, I'm not sure how to improve on the 2d mode.  The chips themselves carried minimal information, but the unit box on the right contained all that information.  Perhaps improving the look of the map would help.  The maps in 2d mode are very functional but bland.
 
Although off subject, I was wondering too about the high wall hexside.  Units could not pass through unless an engineer destroyed the high wall, but the high wall was no impediment to sight lines and, if I remember correctly, added nothing to concealment.  I always thought this was odd.

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: 1925frank

I'm confused.  My recollection is 1 and 2 are 2d large and small, and 3, 4, and 5 are 3d at three different scales (very close, close, and distant).  Are you saying you generally strategize in 3d but play in 2d or just the opposite?

No, I believe you have them mixed up. 1,2 and 3 are 3D modes, 4 and 5 are 2D. I strategize in 2D and play in 3D

ORIGINAL: 1925frank
I always played TOAW in 2d.  In the campaign series I generally played in 3d with a few exceptions.  First, at the start of a scenario, when trucks and vehicles are moved long distances, I prefer 2d because it's faster.  Second, sometimes the terrain in 3d mode is not clear (primarily hexsides, because most everything else is listed in the Unit Box), whereas in 2d mode everything is there if you know how to read it.

Agreed about moving long distances, it is faster in 2D. Not sure about the hexside issue though? Do you have an example of when it would be difficult to determine the hexsides in 3D?

ORIGINAL: 1925frank
Other than possibly making the chips bigger, I'm not sure how to improve on the 2d mode.  The chips themselves carried minimal information, but the unit box on the right contained all that information.  Perhaps improving the look of the map would help.  The maps in 2d mode are very functional but bland.

I guess Talonsofts thinking was that the 2D map was supposed to more functional, and minimalist, while the 3D mode was for the "eye candy"

I could look into making the chips bigger though.

ORIGINAL: 1925frank
Although off subject, I was wondering too about the high wall hexside.  Units could not pass through unless an engineer destroyed the high wall, but the high wall was no impediment to sight lines and, if I remember correctly, added nothing to concealment.  I always thought this was odd.

It does impede line of sight for hexes beyond 1 hex behind the wall, if I recall correctly.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[1925frank]

Regarding hexsides, when there are changes in elevation, sometimes that would make reading the 3d map a little more difficult.  You can flip the map 180, but sometimes that too failed to clarify. 

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: 1925frank

Regarding hexsides, when there are changes in elevation, sometimes that would make reading the 3d map a little more difficult.  You can flip the map 180, but sometimes that too failed to clarify. 

There is an option to turn the Hex Contours on which would clarify that.

Jason Petho

[1925frank]

I thought the Hex Contour buttom simply emphasized where the elevations changes were.  The 3d maps always reflected elevation changes well, so I quickly lost interest in that option.  I guess I should have played with that option more to see what all it did.  I never thought to use the Hex Contour button to clarify what the hexside was.  Thanks.

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: 1925frank

I thought the Hex Contour buttom simply emphasized where the elevations changes were.  The 3d maps always reflected elevation changes well, so I quickly lost interest in that option.  I guess I should have played with that option more to see what all it did.  I never thought to use the Hex Contour button to clarify what the hexside was.  Thanks.

I find that it helps with the removing some of the clutter caused by having the hexsides on, in turn making the hexside features more likely to stand out. Especially in the cases of low walls and streams.

Jason Petho

[JudgeDredd]

I can't be specific about what needs doing to it because I can't really remember what was shown. I do know that it wasn't really playable in 2D.

WhatI would like to see, which I know the Campaign series did lack, is a 2D model similar to TOAWIII...in otherwords...totally playable in that mode.

But I will just be satisfied withseeing this excellent series on my computer once again.[&o]

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
WhatI would like to see, which I know the Campaign series did lack, is a 2D model similar to TOAWIII...in otherwords...totally playable in that mode.

That's because TOAW is totally unplayable in 3D mode? *laughs* Just kidding. I'll take a look over the weekend at TOAW and see how it looks in 2D.

Jason Petho

[YohanTM2]

I will be waiting for a 2D upgrade before buying. 3D is nice on the eye candy side but not that great for many factors of play.

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: Yohan

I will be waiting for a 2D upgrade before buying. 3D is nice on the eye candy side but not that great for many factors of play.

How would you like 2D to upgraded?

Jason Petho

[YohanTM2]

Well, it has been a while Jason. Not sure if you could post a couple of 2D screenies? As I recall, unlike the BGG series (which I played a lot in 2D) it was hard to play - visuals were tough I think.

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Well, it has been a while Jason. Not sure if you could post a couple of 2D screenies? As I recall, unlike the BGG series (which I played a lot in 2D) it was hard to play - visuals were tough I think.

I posted a 2D map in the screenshot topic above.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho