The Manual

[Krasny]

the manual for EiA is easily the worst manual for a computer game i have ever read

indeed it is the second worst piece of liturature i have ever read (the first being the koran)

firstly it is many times the size of the AH manual, yet manages to exlain less. how is this possible, it's like someone was asked to write a manual who knew the game inside and out, and who neglected to assume most people reading the manual were new to the game

secondly it doesn't make sense, it's like reading a manual on a programming language

the moral of the story is, write a tutorial, it's a great way of explaining how to play a game AND it will give great insights as to what is wrong with the manual

[Don60420]

Agreed. What would probably be helpful is for Matrix to establish a private forum where picked registered users, in the same manner as beta testers are chosen, could have access to an on-line version of the manual and suggest revisions. The manual could be so much more helpful than it currently is. To be fair, manuals are tough to write, and I do not mean to disparage this initial effort. However the feedback on this forum thus far is a clear indication of the confusion that the current manual is doing little to dissipate.

[Erik Rutins]

Ralegh is working on a tutorial and we will certainly take the manual feedback to heart. I don't know that there's any way for us to set up an editable online version of the print-ready PDF, but there is an in-game version that can be updated.

[Jimmer]

Erik:
 
How about a WIKI? Does Matrix have the resources to set up a WIKI? That would allow the players themselves to write their own statements, make corrections, etc.

[JudgeDredd]

I find this a common problem, and not solely a Matrix issue (I know you weren't suggesting that anyway.

I have any number of games over the years, and the manuals have been less than pitiful. GTR2 is a very complex GTR racing simulation with a manul that covers virtually bugger all of required info. F1 99-02 before it.

The truth is, companies place very little value on the manual...alot like coding. When coding a project, very little time is allowed for "commenting" said code, and yet it is an absolute requirement to help ease a new developer into the seat. But the time required for adding comments to code is not factored into creating the software project.

I personally think the same goes for manuals. For very good reasons, the bulk of the manual will probably be left until very near the end of the project. This isn't good, though, because come the end of the project, focus will switch to getting the product out the door.

It is poor, in this day and age, that a complex computer game does not come with a manual and a tutorial.

My comments are not specifically directed at this game, as I do not own it. I'm basing my comments on computer games in general and posting here because it's on topic and a topic very close to my heart (I like nice, shiny, physical, decent, detailed manuals)

[James Ward]

I haven't seen this manual but I'm convinced that manuals should be written by someone who has a basic understanding of how the game PLAYS but who is not deeply involved with creating the game. Someone involved with developing the game assumes to much will be understood by a new gamer simply because they have grown up with the game and it is obvious to them.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

...Someone involved with developing the game assumes to much will be understood by a new gamer simply because they have grown up with the game and it is obvious to them.

That is absolutely correct.

Although in my examples above (GTR2 and F1 99-02) it was pure laziness from the developers/publishers.

[Monadman]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I haven't seen this manual but I'm convinced that manuals should be written by someone who has a basic understanding of how the game PLAYS but who is not deeply involved with creating the game. Someone involved with developing the game assumes to much will be understood by a new gamer simply because they have grown up with the game and it is obvious to them.

And of course, then the veterans would be having a fit because the manual was too shallow. We followed the EiA-EiH rules as closely as we possibly could for that reason. Anyone not familiar with those rules would have busted a nut reading them for the first time too and those of us that have stood by EiA after all these years are still rereading them.

For new players: Play and read – take small steps – you’ll get the hang of it.

Enjoy it!

Richard

[tgb]

I read through the manual 3 times, the first open in my lap while playing along in each phase, concentrating on rules and mechanics and not worrying about strategy.

Yesterday afternoon I sat outside with a nice cigar and a nice gin & tonic and re-read the manual looking for any little points I may have overlooked.

I'm still discovering little things. Just now I finally figured out that a corps with, say, 0/12M and 0/12I doesn't mean you can fill it with 12 each, but a TOTAL of 12 militia and infantry.

I may have to put more thought into how I fill my corps in the future.[:)]

[JavaJoe]

ORIGINAL: tgb

I read through the manual 3 times, the first open in my lap while playing along in each phase, concentrating on rules and mechanics and not worrying about strategy.

Yesterday afternoon I sat outside with a nice cigar and a nice gin & tonic and re-read the manual looking for any little points I may have overlooked.

I'm still discovering little things. Just now I finally figured out that a corps with, say, 0/12M and 0/12I doesn't mean you can fill it with 12 each, but a TOTAL of 12 militia and infantry.

I may have to put more thought into how I fill my corps in the future.[:)]

Take as much care filling your corps as you do your gin and tonic!

Militia = tonic
Infantry = Gin

[zaquex]

I think the problem is that the documentation is mainly a rule book its something necessary to understand the mechanics of the game and for that it works and would be sufficient for a board game. But this is a computer game with a not completly intuitive GUI so whats needed the most is a manual for the actual GUI.

What i miss that came with the boardgame is a printable chart/sequence of play card that list the order of play and gives a very brief overview of what happens in each phase these cards should be no more than two or three dubblesided A4 pages (If I recall right it was 2 pages in the board game). I think having this information readily available, giving an easy overview would help new players alot.


Regards

Zaq

[Grognot]

Heh.  If memory serves, the AH version of EiA received a 9 on AH's 10-point complexity scale (with the 10'ers including 'The Longest Day', which is apparently a multi-board game dealing with the Allied invasion of Normandy, and 'Flat Top', which is a Pacific carrier-war game).  It's a complicated game.

Even so, EiANW seems to have dropped certain rules

(off the top of my head...
- game seems to go until somebody hits 100% VP -- isn't it supposed to stop with Dec 1815?
- leaders arrive with a schedule, but they don't change stats (Napoleon has two stat drops, IIRC... and I seem to recall dominance changing things around, too) or loyalties (Bernadotte to Sweden!)
- Kingdom of Italy is not presently an option.

There may be others -- going by memory here, not by comparing the rulebooks.
)

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: zaquex

What i miss that came with the boardgame is a printable chart/sequence of play card that list the order of play and gives a very brief overview of what happens in each phase these cards should be no more than two or three dubblesided A4 pages (If I recall right it was 2 pages in the board game). I think having this information readily available, giving an easy overview would help new players alot.

And quite helpful to all players I may add.

My main irritation with the manual (and others from Matrix) is that it its only available as PDF so finding passages and tables and copying these to say excel and adjust/create playing aids to your own preferences has to be done quite from the bottom. Alternatively tables should be built into the game itself.

[jjax]

ORIGINAL: hjaco



And quite helpful to all players I may add.

My main irritation with the manual (and others from Matrix) is that it its only available as PDF so finding passages and tables and copying these to say excel and adjust/create playing aids to your own preferences has to be done quite from the bottom. Alternatively tables should be built into the game itself.

If there not there already....It would be a great idea to have tables as part of the in-game documentation. I hate searching for those things.

Mabey in a patch?

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: Monadman

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I haven't seen this manual but I'm convinced that manuals should be written by someone who has a basic understanding of how the game PLAYS but who is not deeply involved with creating the game. Someone involved with developing the game assumes to much will be understood by a new gamer simply because they have grown up with the game and it is obvious to them.

And of course, then the veterans would be having a fit because the manual was too shallow. We followed the EiA-EiH rules as closely as we possibly could for that reason. Anyone not familiar with those rules would have busted a nut reading them for the first time too and those of us that have stood by EiA after all these years are still rereading them.

For new players: Play and read – take small steps – you’ll get the hang of it.

Enjoy it!

Richard

Veterans don't need a manual [:)]

I just think that whoever writes most manuals theses days lose track of the fact that the average gamer or the NEW gamer isn't nearly as familiar with the game as someone who helped bring the game out.

I used to build industrial equipment and write the operating instructions for it. The final documentation 'test' was to get a secretary to come out and start, stop and diagnose the system using the manual we were including. We never had an operating question in 10 years!

[JavaJoe]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: Monadman

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I haven't seen this manual but I'm convinced that manuals should be written by someone who has a basic understanding of how the game PLAYS but who is not deeply involved with creating the game. Someone involved with developing the game assumes to much will be understood by a new gamer simply because they have grown up with the game and it is obvious to them.

And of course, then the veterans would be having a fit because the manual was too shallow. We followed the EiA-EiH rules as closely as we possibly could for that reason. Anyone not familiar with those rules would have busted a nut reading them for the first time too and those of us that have stood by EiA after all these years are still rereading them.

For new players: Play and read – take small steps – you’ll get the hang of it.

Enjoy it!

Richard

Veterans don't need a manual [:)]

I just think that whoever writes most manuals theses days lose track of the fact that the average gamer or the NEW gamer isn't nearly as familiar with the game as someone who helped bring the game out.

I used to build industrial equipment and write the operating instructions for it. The final documentation 'test' was to get a secretary to come out and start, stop and diagnose the system using the manual we were including. We never had an operating question in 10 years!

yeah...and I'm sure it was always the secretary with the short skirt...

Oh Debbie...dear can you come here and help us "test out" the new documentation? Yes hun, the first sentace does say to take off your shirt...[X(]

[James Ward]

Well who would you ask if there was a switch under the machne that needed to be checked ...............[;)]

[New York Jets]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I find this a common problem, and not solely a Matrix issue (I know you weren't suggesting that anyway.

Yeah, the manual for AACW is not very good either.

[fvianello]

ORIGINAL: jjax

If there not there already....It would be a great idea to have tables as part of the in-game documentation. I hate searching for those things.

Mabey in a patch?

The tables are already in the online documentation. The popup tip on the "?" button explains you that....

- if you right click the "?" button, the online help will show the tables used during that phase
- if you left click the "?" button, the online help will show the rules used during that phase

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

(none of this is a complaint -- mostly it is my opinions on what works and what doesn't)
 
 
I would like to applaud the possibility of a manual in a wiki format.  I have played two games in the past where there was a user created wiki to supplement the documentation.
 
The first was Sid Meier's Railroads.  The manual was actually pretty complete and the WIKI had more to do with User Mods than with the actual game.  However, there were a couple of sections that explained some difficult points with the user interface with screenshots and detailed explainations of what could go wrong if you were not carefule.
 
The second was Silent Hunter 3.  The manual was complete, as far as it went, but there was virtually no information on what to expect when you did something.  Going to the WIKI helped immensely in situations where you weren't sure if what you wanted to do was actually happening (and was slow due to intentional modeling of reality) or whether the command was being prevented from being exectued (due to intentional modeling of reality).
 
I am a software developer myself and understand the tightrope that documentation writers walk.  On the one hand if you put everything in the manual, readers will give up because they are tired of reading the 'obvious'.  On the other hand, if you skip the 'obvious', you run the risk of leaving something out that is obvious to you but that the user hasn't realized yet.
 
The great part about a WIKI is that it will end up being customized to the the types of information that the new user will not understand.  Questions can be generated in the forum and answered in the WIKI.
 
The idea of having a 'documentation' beta test near release is interesting.  Add a new tier of fresh, newbie beta testers after the game is basically ready and give them the manual.  Have them point out the places where the manual is lacking.  Then shore it up!
 
I haven't actually played a turn yet because Real Life (TM) is in the way.  However, I have spent a little time reading the manual.  One thing I would do differently is to have an overview section that gives the user enough orientation to be able to assimilate the details as they are encountered.  (If that is there, I just haven't seen it yet).
 
Tutorials and AARs are also very useful for new players to get a feel for what to do just to get along.  For example, I know very little about the Napoleanic era except that Napolean was a big-time bada$$ and something bad happened at Waterloo.  I am hoping that playing this game will give me a better grasp of a part of history that I have not bothered with until now.