Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V

[Adam Parker]

Well, cap in hand I come before this hallowed forum, humbly admitting to the removal of Vista from my once pristine machine and its total replacement with XP Pro - good ol' XP Pro... after a mere 2.5 months.

12 blue screens from a brand new rig and some very suspect sound from a latest-chip-ready mobo caused the fear. Nervousness could not escape a once glorious experience. Would a program be compatible? What extra hardware would I need replaced? A big $2000 bill to upgrade my Adobe Creative Suite loomed. Would it all be worth it?

Dare say, yes. The sages here foretold.

Three things finally made my mind up:

1. Absolutely no new software or gaming innovation for the Vista platform in the last few months.

2. XP vastly outperforming Vista (Dx 9 vs Dx10) in Crysis by 24% according to PC User February 2008.

3. Bill Gates in an interview laughing; "let's wait till the new Windows comes out and I'll tell you then", to the question: "What would you have changed about Vista"? (Windows 7 is supposedly slated for 2009).

There are a few things I'll miss. Vista did look shmick. The new IE was nice. I disabled Aero transparency as it really was an unnecessary drain even with 4Gb RAM. The packaged games were very cool and the Sidebar was a great, modern touch (which would disappear from the desktop btw once you ventured away from it <roll eyes>).

Microsoft was amazing through all this. When my vendor called to enquire about the official MS Vista Roll Back policy, they heard: "Yes of course you can but you'll need your XP disc"! How nice and useless for a brand new Vista rig, Vista disc in hand. At least there are still XP copies for sale but they are becoming few and far between.

My advice, grab one while you can.

To be honest, blue screens aside - they can be fixed - but it was that Bill Gates interview that sealed it for me - the message delivered by his honest laugh: "Don't worry about Vista. It won't be out there all that long..."

Dare say... I was told.

[marcusm]

Did the same. It was a real pain due to HP.s suspicous strategy to remove S-ATA support for XP.

I am sticking to this until at least Windows 7. Or just get Mac Book Pro and double boot .

[Peter Fisla]

I knew it all along, Vista = Windows ME all over again. I will never buy OS from MS if they will have back door open for NSA, full of DRM and I'm not the admin of the box. On 1GB machine...after clean install and the OS is using 400MB already ? No way Chose! XP is fine just the way it is...I want to use the OS run Applications for me and fast...so OS should really be transparent. I'm not buying a machine just so the OS gets 90% of the CPU time. Sure I like my Windows games and that is why I'm still dependent on Windows XP however at the same time I have dual boot of latest Ubuntu...slwoly but surely I think I will eventually end up there. Lets see: so far I got rid off MS Outlook -  using Thunderbird now, Explorer - using FireFox, MS Office = using Open Office. I'm also developer at heart and I have to say so far though Visual C++ 6/2005 is hard to replace with anything better. I used be primarily Windows guy (I love Windows 2000,) though Unix is cool but with XP I don't like the activation crap and with Vista...that's where I draw the line! Ubuntu is great, installing it on my Dell M90 Precision Mobile Workstation everything got recogniced right during install, runs smooth, very stable and is very fast! I have dosbox for Ubuntu installed to play my dos games just fine...even have ET: Quake Wars and wors well.

[Joram]

I'm not a Microsoft fan by any regard.&nbsp; They charge you out the eyeteeth for their software.&nbsp; With that said, I have Vista and Crysis runs beautifully.&nbsp; Have all but shadows set on high and get over 30fps (which is all you need).&nbsp; In fact, I only bought Crysis to see how good my rig was and am quite pleased.&nbsp; I have had zero issues with any of my previous games including all my Matrix titles.&nbsp; I had to download one driver to make some of my Ageod games work but once done they work beautifully.&nbsp; I cannot in good faith to say it's any more or less buggy than XP.&nbsp;My only nagging complaint is that&nbsp;I&nbsp;sometimes have to "repair" my network connection&nbsp;after just booting up.&nbsp; I don't know if it's a Vista issue or if I just didn't set up my network correctly (I started from scratch) but it doesn't happen too often but it is an easy step to fix regardless.
&nbsp;
Do you need to get Vista if you already have XP?&nbsp; Absolutely not, but it is not the disaster many people claim it to be either.&nbsp; I'd be happy with XP too!

[Terminus]

Gee, I'm almost tempted to say "I saw this coming"... Vista is scum, and it needs to go away.

[ravinhood]

I love it when I get to type/say: "I Told You So".

[Nomad]

I bought a new computer in October, with XP Pro preinstalled. [:D]

[freeboy]

yep, due to the HUGE negative feedback from users many aftermarket shops, and the large onew, Tiger etc, are all marketing pc with xp and selling xp stand allone.. I bought a copy of xp.. glad for it too

[dinsdale]

Got 4 PCs with Vista. Apart from older software not running on it, never had a problem. No blue screens, crashes or hardware issues, including 2 pcs I've build myself.

Maybe I'm just really lucky, or there are things which need to be done to run it successfully which are more demanding than their previous OS's.

[06 Maestro]

The Head Homer of PC Mechanic just reported that he gave up on Vista. He not only went back to XP, but bought a new Mac laptop. When an expert throws in the towel, it does not look good.

A year ago I bought a couple of HP's with a free Vista upgrade. I thought I would wait until the big service pack was released-maybe in six months time which would fix the expected bugs. It has been a year, and no service pack yet-or even being talked about. Vista looks like a big boondoggle at this point. I saved myself some trouble this time around.

[ravinhood]

On another related note about Microsoft, they are offering like 44 BILLION dollars to buy out Yahoo so they can compete with Google. lol 44 BILLION dollars guys. I personally don't think the sale should be allowed. Microsoft already has too much of a monopoly in the computer industry as it is.

[freeboy]

yep, off with there heads, proverbially speaking

[mllange]

How 'bout somebody come up with something better that people actually want to buy and use and we let the market take care of things instead of begging for more government intervention? I'm in a similar position to dinsdale; I have 6 PCs in my home (5 children) - 2 laptops with XP Pro (one for work) and 3 PC desktops with Vista and a Linux box. I have over 100 games (literally) and only 1 game doesn't work on Vista, Warlords III: Darklords Rising (which also has major issues with XP because it was published in the 90s). I've run Apple OSx, have a Linux box and everything else you can name but for gaming nothing compares to the MS operating systems. Vista doesn't appear to be an issue for me at all, but then again I don't pirate software, download 'free' music and video, get my games from torrent files and porn sites, and all of the other wonderful things people do with their computers. I care about computer security and run a tight ship and the OS isn't the problem. Did I have to download a couple of .dll files from time to time? Sure, -- big deal! Compared to running a Linux box and trying to do even the most basic tasks, when all you have to do is download a .dll file or change your setting to Admin mode or change the compatibility settings it's a cakewalk.

People who try to piece their own hardware together without the expertise to do it correctly... now I can't speak for them; I have no doubt they experience problems. Just don't come crying or trying to blame anyone else... but then again I wouldn't construct a sedan with miscellaneous spare parts from a multitude of manufacturers, throw in a GM engine and then complain about GM because my sedan didn't perform perfectly either. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky and Microsoft really is evil...

[marcusm]

Well maybe they should have marketed it as a gamer platform rather than a serious OS.
As it is now you dont have a choice when buying a laptop. They force fed me Vista. They made
it hell to change back. My collleague has a 3000 dollar graphics card that doesnt work properly in Vista (a FireGL card).
How can one take an OS like that seriously?

Mac Book Pro and Leopard will be my next choice if MS doesn't get their act together. Works fine with XP on double boot
when I need to do stuff in C#.

Most important argument. MOO2 doesn't work properly in Vista. That makes it no go asap .

I stand by my earlier comments. Vista is the new Windows 98 ME. Not even MS own developers use it. Just see a random MSDN video if you don't believe me .

[ravinhood]

I wonder if Marc Schwab still thinks the same about Vista as he did well over a year ago when he was praising it so highly? You out there Marc?

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: nim8or

How 'bout somebody come up with something better that people actually want to buy and use and we let the market take care of things instead of begging for more government intervention? I'm in a similar position to dinsdale; I have 6 PCs in my home (5 children) - 2 laptops with XP Pro (one for work) and 3 PC desktops with Vista and a Linux box. I have over 100 games (literally) and only 1 game doesn't work on Vista, Warlords III: Darklords Rising (which also has major issues with XP because it was published in the 90s). I've run Apple OSx, have a Linux box and everything else you can name but for gaming nothing compares to the MS operating systems. Vista doesn't appear to be an issue for me at all, but then again I don't pirate software, download 'free' music and video, get my games from torrent files and porn sites, and all of the other wonderful things people do with their computers. I care about computer security and run a tight ship and the OS isn't the problem. Did I have to download a couple of .dll files from time to time? Sure, -- big deal! Compared to running a Linux box and trying to do even the most basic tasks, when all you have to do is download a .dll file or change your setting to Admin mode or change the compatibility settings it's a cakewalk.

People who try to piece their own hardware together without the expertise to do it correctly... now I can't speak for them; I have no doubt they experience problems. Just don't come crying or trying to blame anyone else... but then again I wouldn't construct a sedan with miscellaneous spare parts from a multitude of manufacturers, throw in a GM engine and then complain about GM because my sedan didn't perform perfectly either. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky and Microsoft really is evil...

Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.

If you don't know where your command line is make a shortcut of your Warlords .exe icon and then open the shortcuts properties, at the top you should see something like C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe (depends on what drive your game and what folder name you have it stored actually), but, after that Warlords.exe (just type) -wincursor
Just be sure and put a space inbetween the minus sign and the last e in exe. which should finally look like this:
C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe -wincursor

Hope that works for yah.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Well, cap in hand I come before this hallowed forum, humbly admitting to the removal of Vista from my once pristine machine and its total replacement with XP Pro - good ol' XP Pro... after a mere 2.5 months.

12 blue screens from a brand new rig and some very suspect sound from a latest-chip-ready mobo caused the fear. Nervousness could not escape a once glorious experience. Would a program be compatible? What extra hardware would I need replaced? A big $2000 bill to upgrade my Adobe Creative Suite loomed. Would it all be worth it?

Dare say, yes. The sages here foretold.

Three things finally made my mind up:

1. Absolutely no new software or gaming innovation for the Vista platform in the last few months.

2. XP vastly outperforming Vista (Dx 9 vs Dx10) in Crysis by 24% according to PC User February 2008.

3. Bill Gates in an interview laughing; "let's wait till the new Windows comes out and I'll tell you then", to the question: "What would you have changed about Vista"? (Windows 7 is supposedly slated for 2009).

There are a few things I'll miss. Vista did look shmick. The new IE was nice. I disabled Aero transparency as it really was an unnecessary drain even with 4Gb RAM. The packaged games were very cool and the Sidebar was a great, modern touch (which would disappear from the desktop btw once you ventured away from it <roll eyes>).

Microsoft was amazing through all this. When my vendor called to enquire about the official MS Vista Roll Back policy, they heard: "Yes of course you can but you'll need your XP disc"! How nice and useless for a brand new Vista rig, Vista disc in hand. At least there are still XP copies for sale but they are becoming few and far between.

My advice, grab one while you can.

To be honest, blue screens aside - they can be fixed - but it was that Bill Gates interview that sealed it for me - the message delivered by his honest laugh: "Don't worry about Vista. It won't be out there all that long..."

Dare say... I was told.

Hey Adam,

Don't forget about the dual-boot option. It sounds like you have a copy of both XP and Vista now, so there's no reason why you can't have them both on the same machine.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[mllange]

ORIGINAL: marcusm

Most important argument. MOO2 doesn't work properly in Vista. That makes it no go asap .

I've got MOO2 running on Vista currently... what kind of problems are you having, maybe there's a fix?

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.

If you don't know where your command line is make a shortcut of your Warlords .exe icon and then open the shortcuts properties, at the top you should see something like C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe (depends on what drive your game and what folder name you have it stored actually), but, after that Warlords.exe (just type) -wincursor
Just be sure and put a space inbetween the minus sign and the last e in exe. which should finally look like this:
C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe -wincursor

Hope that works for yah.

Well, whatdyaknow? I re-installed the game, set-up the shortcut with the '-wincursor', set admin rights, set compatibility to Windows 95, set the option 'Run in 640 x 480 resolution' (after several other tries), and now it works! Thanks, ravinhood!! That was my one lone holdout I continued to have problems with. I really appreciate the help. I haven't played Warlords III for probably two or three years now... [:'(]

[mllange]

ORIGINAL: marcusm

... My collleague has a 3000 dollar graphics card that doesnt work properly in Vista (a FireGL card).
How can one take an OS like that seriously?

Mac Book Pro and Leopard will be my next choice if MS doesn't get their act together. Works fine with XP on double boot
when I need to do stuff in C#.
...

I don't doubt that for a moment, however I guarantee you can find dozens of expensive graphics hardware that won't work with Leopard / Linux, etc. right this very moment. Wait a 6 months or a year and someone will gear-wrench a patch-job to make it work in a cludgy kinda way, and another couple of months and you might be 90% there, but if you're talking about state-of-the-art, cutting edge hardware ANY operating system will have problems of some kind or another with at least some of it. Why not place some of the blame on the hardware manufacturers for the shoddy state of their release drivers instead of pointing every finger at the OS?

That said, I would love to have every operating system open up and allow the user community access to develop solutions; if you have patience, are willing to work a bit, and can live with equipment that is a few months/years old (which is the vast majority of us), then it's a beautiful thing. It just doesn't work for the casual user and the billions who don't or won't make that extra investment of time and/or effort; and they make up the larger marketplace.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: nim8or

but if you're talking about state-of-the-art, cutting edge hardware ANY operating system will have problems of some kind or another with at least some of it. Why not place some of the blame on the hardware manufacturers for the shoddy state of their release drivers instead of pointing every finger at the OS?

There's a big thread somewhere here about Vista vs XP where I argued till I was blue in the face about how unfair it was for people to scare new PC buyers like me away from Vista. I went out and bought a brand new PC with exceptional specs and proudly piad for my Vista Ultimate disc, all installed.

I had absolutely no issues with Vista although I did have a sneeking suspicion that my sound wasn't right. The RealTek settings were scratchy, distorted - nothing I'd ever experienced before over 3 PC's and 2 lap tops.

Then the blue screens started and I new there was a conflict somewhere - and it was Vista caused.

My machine is now running smoothly with XP and my sound is better than ever. Every productivity program I own now runs fine including my beloved Creative Suite. And I have abosultely no qualms that my game collection will now load and run issue-free too.

However, I just had to try Vista. I'd always wonder what I'd missed if not. I'm just now very glad to be home. I never want that experience repeated.