new possible bug

[borner]

New patch, I am turkey. GB declared war, 4 allied minors came over to support, but my political status is unchanged. It appears it did not move up accordingly. Is this something that shows up next turn, or a bug?

[Marshall Ellis]

Borner:
 
It looks like we coded this to not change your ps because you gain 1pp when the minor is allied.

[borner]

I am fairly certain, given my postion on the scale, that did not happen at the time. Plus, the game log is showing an adjustment for each. Another player in our game has replied that in the same situation as Austria he gained points as France attacked. Also, if it is coded that way, why do the point adjustments show in teh game log as happening?

[ecn1]

Marshall,

I dont we think we get 1pp when the minor is allied, I have never seen that and I looked and I didnt see a mention of that in the rulebook.

erik

[Marshall Ellis]

I guess I'm not saying for sure that you are BUT you should be
 
 

[borner]

I have not seen any points for the minor going allied, but have seen other nations get points for gaining active control of the minor. Just not in this situation. The whole issue of allied minors is new to me anyway, Our group must have been playing with an older version of the game. Either way, my quesion about the points remains.

[borner]

my origional question remains... if there is not supposed to be any points, why does the game log show it. If there are, where are they?

[Marshall Ellis]

borner:
 
I have looked into this and it looks like we should be adding the pp as the log states BUT we were not. This was  slightly different that DOWing a minor. Technically the minor was DOWing a major here AND becoming a freestate in the same turn. I'll add this as an issue.

[dodod]

can you add this on for this game? so we can continue problem free?

[borner]

A suggestion. For many of the bugs that come up, a work around can be found within the game, but the PP loss is a killer. Would it be possible to build in the ability of the host to adjust the PP display. It would also be helpful of you had someone taking over for a terrible player, and the group wanted to even things out a bit.
 
 

[Marshall Ellis]

This has been suggested a couple of times and I don't see why not. The host already can skip you or replace you! I'll look to add this hopefully for the first 1.03 BETA.

[JanSorensen]

I just took a look at the pp for minor ally issue.

I made a quick test which shows that
- no pp is gained when a minor becomes an ally, nor is pp lost if a minor reverts from ally to influenced.
- no pp is gained when a minor ally is called to war.
- the log shows a pp gain when a minor ally is called to war even so
Log:
1805, Jan Austria +1pp
1805, Jan Munster Is Now Austria Freestate
1805, Jan Austria calls minor ally Munster to war against Prussia
1805, Jan Austria +1pp
1805, Jan Liege Is Now Austria Freestate
1805, Jan Austria calls minor ally Liege to war against Prussia
but on the pp chart Austria does not gain 2 pp for these minors.

However, I do not believe Austria should get any pp from aligning minors! Allow me to explain why.

Minors are essentially a null sum game pp wise.
If you attack a minor it costs you 1pp but the MP chosen to run the minor gains 1pp. Net sum is zero.
If you conquer a minor you gain 1pp but the prior owner loses 1pp. Net sum is zero.
If you declare war on a MP who owns a FS you do not pay extra to DoW the MP nor does the owner gain any PP.
If you declare war on a MP who has a minor ally to align you do not pay extra to DoW the MP - so neither should the MP aligning the minor gain any pp.

If aligning a minor ally gained 1pp there would be a gain with no corresponding loss - which is clearly against the intentions of having minors be null sum pp wise!

Thus I believe there should be no pp gain from aligning a minor. If that means you dont want the minor - then dont ally with it. Mind, dont try to argue that ".. but I will lose 1pp if the enemy takes the minor away from me so I should gain 1pp from aligning it." That does not work as you would be looking only on your side of the pp balance - you would be ignoring that the enemy would also gain 1pp from conquering the minor.

I hence believe that the fix should be to not add the errorneous line to the log that claims to add 1pp.

[eske]

Jan beat me to it.
Well documented, solid argumentation, concur completely [:)][:)][:)][8D]
/eske