Initiative underrated

[robot]

Im sorry guys but this thing with initiative is really wrecking this game for me. I took new Bern in September 1861 I am now in April 1862 and the two commanders in New Bern have never been able to move an inch from there. I know it is because my AC is in Washington and they are unable to form any initiative down there. But I can not pull my AC from Washington at this time and move him all over the map. I just think that at some time individual units should be able to form some kind of attack even with out a AC near by. I have units that have been sitting for almost a year right next to an area and have been unable to move into the zone. Due to this fact is why I have been unable to make MO a north state and it is still neuteral. Should have been into Arkansas at least three zones but unable due to this initiative thing.

I still am having one heck of a time trying to get my troops to board ships and go to the zone I want them to. Also I have at least four cruisers in some zones with little or no loss to the rebs supply in those ports. How many ships do you need in a port zone to slow or stop supplys from entering. Also I have 4 ships in the os 2 zone with no slowing or hindering the raiders there. Should I put more ships there or in another zone.

I have been able to get the Reb supply per month down below 90 units per month. How I still dont know how I really was able to do this. I have been trying to take Jacksonville Florida for almost a year with no success there at all. The rebs dont have many troops there and if I could get a token force to attack there I know I could take it.

The Rebs are building Iron clad like mad while I have only been able to produce three. But have not been able to get them to attack the fort at New Orleans. Thats another thing I have at least 9 or 10 Ships in the mouth of the river there with no reduction to supplys to New Orleans or any port on the river.

[Bo Rearguard]

Most Union forces in coastal enclaves during the Civil War were never able to advance substantially inland. I think the game does a pretty good job of reflecting the fact that without major logistical support that's about all that came of Union invasions at Port Royal, New Bern, Charleston, Galveston, etc.

In the actual Civil War Union General Rosecrans spent six months procrastinating after the battle of Murfreesboro. General George McClellan practically had to forced into his first offensive move by presidential edict. That's the sort of logistical foot-dragging thing the game is attempting to simulate with the initiative system, particularly on the Union side. One thing you can do is replace commanders with a low attack rating with those with a higher one.

If you want to see New Orleans completely cut off from the outside world, post a heavy artillery unit at either Fort St. Philip or Fort Jackson at the mouth of the Mississippi if you have taken either. That will do it. [;)]

[Bo Rearguard]

Just out of curiosity have you built any depots in these areas with independent commanders? That helps too.

[Treefrog]

Robot,

The blockade needs supplied cruisers. Are your cruiser's supplied? Check for little cargo boxed in the bottom left of the cruiser icon. My understanding is that they are supplied if (1) they are in a region with a depot on a captured island, or (2) they are adjacent to a region with a transport. The cruisers should have a leader too. Focus early in areas where you have a depot on a captured island; the effect/impact of the blockading force is doubled. Save Jacksonville and Galveston for last; try to capture them instead.

Four supplied cruisers should significantly reduce supply to most ports except Wilmington.

Block Norfolk, Mobile and the Mississippi River ports with a single heavy artillery piece in an adjacent river mouth area. This will free up cruisers for sea duty. Against a possible CSN gunboat or ironclad attack, the artillery should be in a fort and have an artillery leader.

Four cruisers are unlikely to do much to reduce CN raiders (I call them pirates) in the North Atlantic. Through March '62 I don't even try as I would rather have my cruisers blocking CSA trade. When the July '61 build cruisers arrive you can commit them to the North Atlantic. Again, they need to be in supply. Leaders are helpful. Ultimately I don't see much progress until I have 10 to 20 supplied, well led pirate hunters. Then they start to kill between 1 and 3 pirates per turn and clean them out pretty quick.

Are your ships in the Mississippi River mouth in supply?

You should be able to build 6 ironclads per cycle. You need to start this in July 61 and not stop until you are sure you dominate any possible CSN ironclad program. His NO and Memphis ironclads are separated from the ones built at Mobile, Savannah, Charleston, Wilmington, New Bern and/or Norfolk. You must keep the CSN ironclads split up and pound them into submission in detail.

Watch the CSA ports for the ironclad icon. When it appears, I would blockade it with your own ironclads; pull everything else out of the sea region. Then attempt to capture the port and "Graf Spee" that single/double ironclad into the arms of your own blockade force heavy with ironclads.

The last thing you want is CSN ironclads getting experience stars against your cruisers and transports. In sea battles there is a high chance the ironclads will fire on a wooden ship and hit it, leading towards experience. Then your larger fleet will prevail, the CSN ironclads will retire and come out again, using another movement point. As ironclads are tough to hit, even by other ironclads, over time his ironclads will gain experience stars damaging your transports while your ironclads gain none while bouncing round shot off his armor; an ironclad with 3 experience stars is very, very tough to hit. This "experience star" gap may ultimately cause you great grief. Against the AI these CSN three star ironclads can ultimately sweep the seas.

I don't know why you'd want to move land units to blockade sea regions. You may want to revisit whether you have enough sea transport points available in all regions leading to the point of debarkation.

The game has a steep learning curve at the beginning. I suggest you open the manual and keep it handy. Learn to master both the table of contents and "search" feature to get you to the area of the rules governing your "problem" areas. As is the case with most modern wargame rules, very important nuggets of information are simply buried in the middle of a paragraph. The "search" feature of the manual is helpful in finding them.

I agree with Bo Rearguard 101% on his observation that historically the National troops made little progress inland from their coastal enclaves; the game reflects that very well. As he says, a depot on the coast is very helpful. You should also have local commanders with an attack of three. You should also have a TC in DC with initiative within "help" range. Eventually you'll get a shot at advancing one region inland. However, IMHO it is typically better to capture all the coastal ports (and destroy all factories, railroads and resources therein in case you lost them later) before attempting to venture inland. Destroying CSA supply is the key to setting them up for land campaigns that will win you the game.

Stick with it. This is one of the best strategic- grand tactical games I' ve seen in 50 years.

[GShock]

Lack of initiative is indeed frustrating.
There's a fair chance you may still get some limited initiative in a non-ac region but that depends entirely on supply+depot+UC stats, hindered in winter season.

Unit commanders stats relevant to initiative rolls are Attack and Army Mod rating. If you leave a leader unattended by AC with good stats in these 2 fields, you may be assured that sooner or later he'll be able to attack. However placing 5 leaders stacked with units will not grant all 5 to have initiative at the same time, so the best thing to do here is to have a GOOD Corps Commander, with those good stats needed for initiative but, also, with many CP so he can have enough troops to beat the opposition and advance further  inland. UC accompanying him will go with him and those poor UC who stay will garrison the region or provide numbers in case of defence from a massive attack in the coastal region you are until init is achieved by the CC.

It is indeed a hard thing to understand if u play with semi or random stats + hidden. The Army Mod rating is uncovered only in case the Leader is effectively in command of the whole forces in the region, and it's a hard thing to do with a specific leader because you'll always want to use the AC army mod rating and not a UC army mod rating. So...this generally means you've got to keep track of how many times the lone UC (or CC) get initiative by his own will, say how often and in a specific time limit you yourself set for him to understand (or give a good guess) what his army mod rating is.

Essentially it's like: wait wait wait...ok i've waited enough, this UC is good in offensive but his Army Mod is poor...time to move him to the AC and have another UC (or better a CC) in his place and see if he gets initiative on his own.

Now how long to wait wait wait, that's entirely up to you. Frustrating...yes...but realistic nonetheless. That's why Lincoln was asking what brand of Whiskey Grant was drinking to send to the other generals! [;)]

[robot]

BO thats the problem im having with this game. I took Ft st Phillip early. But I was never able to get any troops or artty down to stock it with. I tried several times to move infantry and guns down there. But I was never able to reach the fort in one move. Finally when the rebs got there iron clads built they blew me out off the water and I lost them. I did not build any depots around the ports I captured but the troops were supplied. I took New Bern,Jacksonville, and Savannah. Then my toops went to sleep and refused to do anything else for over a year. I will continue to improve im sure but for right now I get so dern frustrated with my men refusing to help with the fighting I feel like putting a bunch of them in front of a firing squad. Thanx all for the info im sure it will all help.

[robot]

Can someone explain to me what army mod rating is and where or how do I find it. I see a lot of talk about this but I dont really know where to look for it. Thanx. I try to have anyone im planing an amphib move with to have at least three attack also a good defense rating if possible to hold what he takes. Like I said I am remiss in building supply depots for them. Will try this and see if this causes them to get a little bit more gumption.

[Bo Rearguard]

Hi robot. Be patient. As Abe Lincoln said the poorest use for a soldier is to put him in front of a firing squad. [;)]

With the latest patch the cost for moving heavy artillery was bumped up to 12, so make sure you move that first in a turn as it will be the most expensive to move. Also make sure that you an unbroken line of transports from Northern ports to the Gulf coast.

Another thing you may want to consider as a new player is trying a game as the South. I encountered frustrations similar to yours when I first took up the game as the Union, but found they eased a bit playing as the Confederacy. You have less units to worry about, better commanders who usually get initiative most turns, (the home territory bonus helps)you're playing defense, and no navy or naval transport issues to worry about. It tends to make learning the basic game mechanics easier. Just a friendly suggestion. [:)]I also realize some just prefer playing the Union.

[Bo Rearguard]

The army modifier for various leaders is found in the leader's screen(F5)in the second tab. It's in the column headed the by rifle icon.



As you can see by the number of the negative values there are a lot of leaders who should probably never be Army Commanders. [;)]

[Treefrog]

Robot,

With respect, if you are unable to move heavy artillery and an engineering officer from DC to Ft. Phillip, you need to review the rules on strategic movement.

Strategic movement does not require initiative, only having access a port and transport with sufficient capacity (you might also need railroad capacity to get to the port). Heavy artillery costs 12 transport points per unit. All you need to move them from an Atlantic Coast port to Ft. Phillip is an unbroken line of transports (one transport has 25 transport points) between the embarkation and debarkation port/point.

Therefore a single transport in reach region of the chain should allow you to strategic move 1 HA and 3 infantry/militia anywhere you wish.

I remain of the opinion that you must have had a "weak" link in your transport chain, either a region w/o a transport or more commonly a region where the transports have already used their transport points to a point where they total less than the 12 necessary to move an HA. Move the HA before you do anything else and that should solve the problem.

GShock has a good point, consider playing the game solitaire as the CSA. Better yet, play both sides. That way you'll learn what each side can do and, more importantly, what each side can "see". Spotting rules are important to know.

[robot]

Treefog thnax for the info. My game must be different then yours. I have not been able to produce the amount of Ironclads you say. Im lucky if im able to produce 3 by some time in 1862.

Also i thought you needed the blue wavy line before you can do any kind of amphib move. My ships are in supply and I do have an unbroken supply line to the gulf. Did not know it takes 12 points to move a heavy gun. How many points to move a light gun. It is still only four for each trooper unit right. I thought it was because I didnt have any ts in the mouth of the river. But even after I moved enough ships into the mouth still was unable to move to the fort.

[Bo Rearguard]

The transport cost (rail and sea) for regular artillery and infantry is four. For Cavalry, five. For regular sea movement from friendly territory to friendly territory you don't need the wavy blue lines under the red arrow. You don't even need initiative. They're required just for invasions into hostile areas not regular sea movement. If moving units by sea from one friendly controlled area to another you don't need to gather a bunch of transports at the point of embarkation like you do with an invasion. For most sea movement you just usually need a string of one transport per sea area from the point you're moving them from to where they are going assuming you're not moving an entire army.

[robot]

Sorry bo thank you that does help. But I thought when doing an invasion you need to gather the ts at debarkation not embarkation. I have no problem moving from friendly to friendly but on invasion only.

[Bo Rearguard]

Actually you are correct. You do need to gather transports at the point of debarkation for invasions. My typo. [8D]

[GShock]

With respect, if you need someone to show you the army rating, i suggest you to read the manual.

If you don't read the manual you'll hardly ever understand anything about this game. [:)]

[robot]

I believe the biggest problem I had with taking Ft Phillip was I did not have enough ts in the mouth of the river. When I was trying to do this I did not know big guns take 12 movement points at debarkation. I had 14 there and I believe I needed at least 20 there. I thought the gun was only 5 so was counting 2 infantry as 8 and the gun as 5 which made 13. My bag will restart and try all this again with the new numbers. Also tried to move 4 units of calvary thinking 16 total and should have been 20. I was sure it was my fault just could not figure what I was doing wrong is all. Want to thank all the guys that have been so helpful to me. And for taking the time to help this poor dumb newb. Maybe now I can get some fighting done.