First Impressions & Feedback Thread

[killroyishere]

"It's a great and addictive game. When I first ran the game, it truly reminds me of the time when I first opened Smugglers 2 after downloading it. I can see how players would be immediately hooked. The texts seem to tell a story, and the quotes are quite inspirational. People today are looking for open-ended games, and Smugglers is arguably the most open-ended game on the market."
Voyager III, USA
(Quoted from closed forum for betatesters)

Definitely like open ended and sandbox games.

[Justascratch]

Got it - playing it - lot's of fun!

I am usually a little wary of lower priced software, but this one is a winner.

[Tophat1815]

 Some form of AAR would be nice........[8|]

[V22 Osprey]

Agreed, I'm not seeing anything special in this game, especially when I have AI War and Sins of a Solar Empire.I'm not taking a chance until I see some of AAR or video of gameplay.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
Since there is no demo, I'm not taking a chance until I see some of AAR or video of gameplay.

There is a demo on the publishers site; I know this as I've been playing it!

Can't say I'm impressed, but I gather the game has been improved somewhat and a new demo is also inbound, so it only seems fair to wait for that.

[killroyishere]

Found the demo and I see it as a beginners game to space trading adventure. The ship to ship space combat is sort of a joke. You have a side picture of your ship on the left and a side picture of the enemy ship on the right. The combat is basically 1 2 3 and there is no tactical to it at all. You have a handful of selections of how you want to fire or defend yourself and a handful of action points to do it. But, the simple pattern is taunt, shoot missile end turn, next turn aim, fire laser, fire laser, next turn (if the ai launches missle) is ecm until you stop the missle so button 4, 4, 4 lmao then the next turn goes back to aim, fire laser, fire laser and the next turn is (by this time you have the ai opponent near dead) tractor beam, aim, fire laser. next turn aim, fire laser fire laser enemy dead. Every battle was the same way and I didn't come close to losing one. I know it's just a tutorial but this is pretty basic stuff here. Renegade Legion Interceptor is a better game than this, though it has no space trading, but it has an excellent tactical combat system. Out of 8 hit the nail on the head with this one it is about a 5/8 game to me based on the tutorial and mainly because this combat engine will get old and repetitive quickly. I never did get to see any ship boarding features since I guess you have to have a huge ship for that. I would probably pay $10 bucks for it just to tinker around to see more of the middle/end game, but, not $29.99 or $39.99 physical for sure. Build a new more tactical combat engine and attach the adventure and trading game along with it and you would have yourself a winner here as I found the trading portion quite likeable just not this combat engine.

[JudgeDredd]

erm....oops. I came away from the demo with quite a different outlook. I thought it was a great little demo and a good tutorial.

I agree, I "kind of" noticed a pattern in the battles, and the only battle I came near to losing was me just clicking around...but I thought it was good lite fun. But there was an element of uncertainty in the battles. It wasn't always plain sailing. A couple of times I was hit by a missile...a few times my ECM worked. A couple of times the enemy ECM worked, a few times my missiles struck home. Most of the time the "aim" worked, but sometimes did not. I was going into each battle not really knowing that I was coming out of it.

But I was more interested in the rest of it anyway, and the battles "popped up" every now and again. I was impressed with the array of upgrades you could get for your ship, and the new ships. There looks to be alot of game here.

My only concern is that the battles may become repetitive to the point of not wanting to play.

It's very beer and pretzels, but alot to tinker with. I thought the demo showed it in a promising light

[killroyishere]

My only concern is that the battles may become repetitive to the point of not wanting to play.

Well that was baiscally my main concern as well. With there being a pattern to the battles and really no tactical movement at all then I'm pretty certain they would become repetitive and boring too quickly. I played 300 turns and I'm already bored with it. [>:]

[Erik Rutins]

Keep in mind that as you improve and upgrade to better ships and so on, you also get additional abilities that affect the combat (quite a few of them) and you also tend to get involved in more difficult and interesting missions with tougher opponents (that each have their own abilities too). I find it keeps things interesting. With that said, this developer specializes in "casual games with depth" so if that style is not for you, it may not be right for you.

[Rosseau]

Thank you for the boarding screen, Erik, and your honest appraisals. Half the fun is deciding whether to buy or not!

Matrix owns the market when it comes to Grigsby-like games. I buy those without even looking at a screen. But it's tough when you find huge compilations like Sword of the Stars Ultimate occasionally on sale for $5!

Of course, Smugglers will most likely be supported/enhanced. If we don't support these indies, we won't be seeing new games. And that's bad...

[Erik Rutins]

Believe me, I'm a Sword of the Stars fan as well and I think that's a truly outstanding game. It's tough for indie games of this kind to compete with games that have gone to retail and are able to use $5 pricing at the other download sites as it's all incremental profit at that point. I won't claim this is a replacement for SOTS in any way, it's not a 4X game or a mass-market retail title, but it's a fun space-trading game and I feel it's a quality diversion. YMMV.

[NielsB]

Hi there,
 
I am the developer of Smugglers 4. Erik was so kind to invite me here. Thank you for your comments. I am always looking for ways to improve the game.
 
If you compare Smugglers 4 to SOTS you could as well compare it to a 3D shooter. Both are completely different games and obviously this is not and was never supposed to be a 4X strategy game. My intention was to create a space trading game that on top of being exactly that also provides a space conquest mode as a bonus. Talking about pricing doesn´t make much sense with indie gaming either. As an indie I have to charge as much as I need to further create games. Typically indie games sell much less copies than games for the mass market.
 
The tutorial mode is a sandbox mode where your ship cannot be destroyed. It´s meant to give someone new to this game a first look at the game and the multitude of options. If you want to test the combat system you should get a bit more into the game. The great amount of available skills give each profession a specialized way to handle combat. So your suggestion of taunt etc. only work for mercenaries and obviously when you get deeper in the game you might decide to use different combinations.
 
Finally if the combat is too easy for you, I suggest you turn on the veteran mode in the game options. While obviously the fans of MatrixGames are real computer game pros I also had to design the game with the less experienced players in mind. The veteran mode however should be a good challenge. 
 
I hope you enjoy the game.

[JudgeDredd]

Bugger

I'm a sucker from hearing from devs! [:D]

Well I enjoyed the tutorial. I thought it was a very light game with plenty of options to make play varied. Upgrades to ships. New ships. Different galaxies. Different mission types. Different character types and traits. I thought there was alot of game in it.

I also like the on board view. I can understand why Killroyishere was disappointed with the tactical side...seems to me he was looking for a grid to move his ships/people around in. Personally, I've tried several space games and really did not get on with them.

I actually played this through the whole tutorial - and then carried on playing, something I seldom do with tutorials as they are often text based or have so much text to read I just can't be bothered. The tutorial in this was short and concise with each popup, telling you what you had to do and why in very small chunks of text.

I think as an indie, you've done a good job and for that reason, I'll be picking this up. £20 isn't going to break the bank (although the wife could find other things for the cash I guess!

[JamesM]

So can this game be considered as a space 4X game?

[JudgeDredd]

No

[killroyishere]

@NeilsB

It's not so much the combat outcomes it's the combat method it's a boring sideshow of my ship on the left and the enemy ship on the right press a button or two each turn. Veteran status wouldn't change my figuring out a pattern and then the repetitiveness of the same button pushing every battle. There is just really no tactics here and that's my concern. It's like cardboard cut outs and just rolling the dice and that's what it feels like to me. This method has been used in games like Warlords/Warlords IV but it has an auto combat feature so one doesn't become fatigued and bored with button smashing every single battle. That is where the repetitiveness of this would get old fast. I guess I was hoping for a more action style combat system like a Master of Orion II (hexes and tactical turns of maneuver and fire).
At any rate I did say it was a good beginner level beer & pretzels sort of space trading adventure game and easy for newcomers to get into but for an old veteran gamer like myself it's too repetitive in the combat sequences of the tutorial. Maybe if you had given more opportunities in the demo to do more things and get to better ships or had sequenced tutorial segments so we could see all of the game in sections I might have had a different feeling about it?
I'll leave it at that and hope you get lots of sales as we always need more new developers in the genre. I did give you some ideas for future versions though as I think some sort of tactical movement and combat would be more fun. Take a look at games that I mentioned like Renegade Legion Interceptor and Sentinel Worlds as both of these were excellent space combat games in their prime and you already have a very nice space trading game as I said. [:)]

[JamesM]

Erik,

Was the the space game that you were asking for beta testers a while back?

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Justascratch

Got it - playing it - lot's of fun!

I am usually a little wary of lower priced software, but this one is a winner.

Lower priced software? If anything this is way overpriced.(My main complaint lately).
I got it yesterday,and have already shelved it. Boring combat and repetetive play and lack of anything exciting happening.The game runs problem free, but looks 20 years old. If it was $20 dollars I wouldn't care, but $50 (with shipping) is not worth it.
Thanks

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
It's not so much the combat outcomes it's the combat method it's a boring sideshow of my ship on the left and the enemy ship on the right press a button or two each turn. Veteran status wouldn't change my figuring out a pattern and then the repetitiveness of the same button pushing every battle. There is just really no tactics here and that's my concern. It's like cardboard cut outs and just rolling the dice and that's what it feels like to me. This method has been used in games like Warlords/Warlords IV but it has an auto combat feature so one doesn't become fatigued and bored with button smashing every single battle.

I think that some players might welcome an "auto-resolve" for combat, but I have to tell you that what you see in the tutorial/demo with your fighter is just scratching the surface. Combat does get quite a bit more interesting and challenging as you go on. Moreover, you have the choice to focus on trading rather than building your career on ship combat. In any case, it may just not be a good fit for you, but I wanted to make sure to note that the tutorial/demo is really just an intro to the beginning part of the game.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: jamesm
Was the the space game that you were asking for beta testers a while back?

Nope, there's another one coming too! [8D]