Best Matrix Game for Intro to wargaming?

[rowech]

It's tough to judge all of these games and what they have, how involved they are or will be, and which games expect you to already have an extreme amount of wargaming knowledge. I'm looking for suggestions for the best game(s) for someone just starting out with wargames. What game would do the best without overwhelming the user? Just looking for suggestions. Don't worry about era, or level, or anything like that.

[Terminus]

Steel Panthers: World at War. It's free, too.

[Lützow]

Advanced Tactics.

[junk2drive]

There are several free games at the bottom of the forum. I agree that Steel Panthers WAW for free is a great game with several tutorial scenarios to get you started.

[sabre1]

1.Commanders Europe at War = easy to play and learn

2. John Tillers Campaign Series = easy to play, and understand map of the battlefield, with 3d view, fairly good graphics.

3. Steel Panthers = best choice simply because it's free unless you opt for the General's edition. Graphics are dated if you are into eye candy.

4. I like Advanced Tactics, but the tutorial leaves much to desire.

5. I can't vouch for Operation Barbarosa but it should be easy to play.

6. Time of Wraith is another game I don't own, but looks fairly straight forward from reading about it on the forums.

7. Officers, if you like RTS, (I'm not crazy about RTS in wargames)

Anyway read the forums ask your questions. Money is tight and no one like buying a game they don't really enjoy.

There is even Gary Grigsby's World at War the current one, but I can't say if it's easy to play. Gary's games are never "easy" to play. [;)]

[rowech]

As a general rule -- are the operational games more difficiult than the tactical level games? I ask only because it would seem to be the case because of the production aspects of an operational type game. As a follow up questionk are there bigger scope type games where the various units come into the game without you having to manage the production, etc? Or, is that a major aspect of all wargames?

[rowech]

I download the War in Russia download and was unable to get it to work with my computer. The other two looked blah compared to some of the paying options available.

[rowech]

Another piece of this would be games that have good AI.

[NefariousKoel]

Steel Panthers is free, which is nice, but the old style interface isn't exactly intuitive and I don't think I'd recommend it for a beginner.

I'd have to agree with sabre1, it looks like Commander:Europe At War is one of the easiest to get into since it seems to be very similar to the old Panzer General which snared a lot of people into PC wargaming years ago.

[rickier65]

You should get a lot of suggestions here.

Hard to know what you would like but,

1. Steel Panthers - there is a free download version, (I recall buying this in a boxed version when it was first released -pre-Matrix)
2. For a slightly different view, Panzer Command Kharkov. 3D and at the tactical level.
3. Advanced Tactics, excels at the strategic level.
4. Kharkov Disaster on the Donets. Operational - nice clean approach.

Lots more of course.
Rick

[killroyishere]

Well from Matrixgames you can't go wrong with a free game of Steel Panthers W@W or WW2 whichever it is. It's fun, it's easy to get into and it has hours and hours and years and years and lifetime play in it. I don't think you can get much more out of a game for the cost "Free" than any other game out there dealing with WW2 and it has a nice history lesson included with a little bit of detail about the various units and equipment used during the war. All I could have asked for more would have been all the History Channels WW2 episodes included. [:D]

In all fairness to Matrixgames if you like this game you should buy the Steel Panthers: Generals edition with all the Mega campaigns included which I personally enjoy the Pacific War campaign series of it.

Now last I heard also Sharpnel Games is offering a Windowed mode of Steel Panthers WW2 for free also and have an updated graphics version for like $40

It appears to have a large following and mods to last a lifetime. I think someone even took the game and turned it into a civil war game, wish I could find the link to that as I think it might be fun to try.

Second Recommendations if you have good eyes and like real time games would be the Close Combat series and I would highly recommend The Longest Day one as it has a campaign game to it and is about D-Day.

Now outside of Matrixgames I can't recommend a game more than Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas for an intro Civl War game. I love it. There's no other real time civil war game that compares except maybe Sid Meier's Civil War game and I would recommend that one also get the Sid Meier's Civil War pack that has Gettysburg and Antietam included.

Once you can get into intermediate or more advanced then you'll want to get Forge of Freedom as it's the best turn based strategy with turn based tactical battles out there for a civil war game.

If you like Ancients games then the Tin Soldiers series Caesar is pretty good, Spartan by Slitherine is really good though I didn't much care for their more recent Field of Glory game.

I would also recommend a couple of Killerbee software games online for entry level fun: The Perfect General and Empire Deluxe:Enhanced Edition
You can google Killerbee software and find the main site.

Those should get you started into the wonderful world of wargaming. Then once you're hooked you won't be able to stop yourself until you've bought every game in the library. [:'(]

Edit: Oh almost forgot another entry level game like Steel Panthers is Panzer Command:Kharkov or Winterstorm. I'd recommend the bundle as you get a lot more maps you can play in the Kharkov game.

Another piece of this would be games that have good AI.

Most games have a good ai, it's just that some players are better than good. [:)]

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: rowech

As a general rule -- are the operational games more difficiult than the tactical level games? I ask only because it would seem to be the case because of the production aspects of an operational type game. As a follow up question are there bigger scope type games where the various units come into the game without you having to manage the production, etc? Or, is that a major aspect of all wargames?

No it isn't; just strategic level ones. Note strategic, not 'operational'; there are more refined definitions but essentially 'operational' is somewhere between strategic and tactical. Many of the best games here such as The Operational Art of War, Conquest of the Aegean and the Decisive Battles series are operational level and none are concerned with research or production (be prepared to manage supplies, though).

I download the War in Russia download and was unable to get it to work with my computer. The other two looked blah compared to some of the paying options available

Not a good sign, this is not a hobby for eye-candy fans! However, those games are pretty ancient and I must admit that, despite it's merits, I wouldn't recommend SP:WaW as I find it pretty hard on the eyes these days.

Another piece of this would be games that have good AI

When you need to start worrying about that in the selections made to date, you will no longer be a 'beginner'! Be aware, though, that programming a wargame AI is much, much harder than for a game with far more limited possibilities, such as chess. An experienced human player will usually beat the AI in evenly matched scenarios whatever game you are playing, although one advantage of PC wargames over something like chess is that they rarely are matched unless for tournament play. Pick the underdog against the AI so, for example, in a Civil War strategic game the CSA is (and should be) more of a challenge than the North.

I'd recommend John Tiller's Campaign Series as maybe the best first game, that can also 'grow with you', as it were. It does look it's age a little (the Matrix release is a reworking of late 90's games) but it's still graphically passable, runs well in 'modern' resolutions and provides a huge amount of bang for your buck. It's easy to learn and play, has enough scenarios to keep you going for years and is as good an introduction as you'll find here. As a tactical game there is no production to worry about either.

If you get on with that, maybe try other games representing different eras (like Field of Glory's ancients) or scales (the strategic level WW2: Time of Wrath), or step up a little to something like Battles in Normandy, Highway to the Reich or The Operational Art of War. Just avoid War in the Pacific for the time being; if that does appeal dip your toes in the water with Uncommon Valor first.

Good luck and enjoy. Take advantage of the sale!

PS. Another 'path' if you are already a 'classic' RTS gamer; you might want to try the Close Combat series. Very different in some ways, but close enough in others to help you find your feet. If you get on with those, then try CotA or the upcoming Bulge game for the perfect blend of operational wargaming, historical accuracy and continuous time.

[hgilmer3]

I like Forge of Freedom.  I'm sure some would say it is more complicated, but I did not find that to be the case at all.  And it looks pretty good, too, for a wargame.  You can play a very simplified game and you can add layers of difficulty as you learn it.

[rowech]

After doing some review checking of Commander: Europe at War, I found it's expected out on the DS in January. I know it probably won't be the same detail/depth but I think I'm going to wait for that to come out. Only because I think the interaction of the game on the DS will be good.

After looking at all the games available, it seems like if I were to buy one of Matrix's games during this sale, I would lean towards:

John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Total Operational Art of War
Birth of America 2 (only because it's my favorite era...although I think I like the apparent simplicity to the other two)

I realize none of the games are "simple" but it seems like these games have the potential to be the least overwhelming. Reading about it, TOAW seems like it can be a huge game but that it also has smaller type scenarios that can lead into the big scenarios.

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

[slybelle]

ORIGINAL: rowech

Reading about it, TOAW seems like it can be a huge game but that it also has smaller type scenarios that can lead into the big scenarios.

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm also strongly considering TOAW so would be interested in people's thoughts. Is it very difficult to get into? Is it fun? What is the pros and cons?

[V22 Osprey]

The Operational Art of War is a good game but I wouldn't recommend it for beginners.

I would go with John Tiller's Campaign Series or Steel Panthers World at War.

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: rowech

....I'm looking for suggestions for the best game(s) for someone just starting out with wargames. What game would do the best without overwhelming the user? Just looking for suggestions. Don't worry about era, or level, or anything like that.

From what I have read, Panzer General is the game credited with saving the wargaming genre, or at least attracting many new gamers to it. Simple and easy to play, it was a great introductory game for players new to wargaming.

Another fun game I used to enjoy during that era was Clash of Steel. I spent many hours playing it and enjoyed it immensely.

So, as a result of my experience playing the two games mentioned above, I suggest Commander – Europe at War Gold. Its graphics resemble those of Panzer General and its gameplay is blended with Clash of Steel's in such a way that I believe someone new to wargaming would enjoy it.

[Bison36]

Campaign Series for tactical battles. Plus its a great price for really 3 games in 1. Fight as the British in North Africa today, Russian front tomorrow and Marines storming the Soloman's the day after tomorrow. Good stuff.

Forge of Freedom for strategy/tactical battles. I just think that because you can a) simplify the game down in terms of micromanagement, b) limited sides to plan against, c) both strategic and tactical wargaming features and d) increase difficulty as you go; its a very viable option for a new wargamer.

[anarchyintheuk]

WitP AE. If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Rowech,

ORIGINAL: rowech
It's tough to judge all of these games and what they have, how involved they are or will be, and which games expect you to already have an extreme amount of wargaming knowledge. I'm looking for suggestions for the best game(s) for someone just starting out with wargames. What game would do the best without overwhelming the user? Just looking for suggestions. Don't worry about era, or level, or anything like that.

Try the new Operation Barbarossa demo here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/374 ... r%20Russia

Some other recent introductory war games:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/373 ... val.Realms

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/344 ... t.War.Gold

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/345 ... rld.War.II