Sure seem to be a lot of WITP'ers in here...

[Texashawk]

... and welcome aboard, boys! I think this just might be your next addiction... [;)]

Steve

[wodin]

This is something I've noticed. I believe its because it has a grog wargame feel (many non wargamers say they've never played anything like it). ....my hope is that newbies to Matrix and wargames in general who love this game will take an interest in the other wargmes...mainly WITP and for me Panther Games series.....the bigger the fanbase the more sales the more our hobby expands and compnays like Panther Games can continue. ...

[lordxorn]

Hey Wodin I mentioned this in the other thread, is WITP Admirals really worth 70$?? That is just too expensive, plus hasn't WITP been out for a while now?

Even new games don't cost 70$!!!

I also want to comment on the fact that you pro-grognard gamers from WITP are supporting DW so much, it sends chills up my spine.

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Hey Wodin I mentioned this in the other thread, is WITP Admirals really worth 70$?? That is just too expensive, plus hasn't WITP been out for a while now?

Even new games don't cost 70$!!!

I also want to comment on the fact that you pro-grognard gamers from WITP are supporting DW so much, it sends chills up my spine.

Having attempted WITP as someone who enjoys deep wargames but wouldn't call himself a grognard, I can honestly tell I find it horribly overpriced unless you really really really like the idea of playing only one single game non-stop for over a year. I found it horribly over-detailed, with an uninformative and badly designed interface, a disappointing AI, sluggish performance on a high-end gaming pc and in dire need of the automation features this game offers. I sincerely doubt the Supreme Commander of an entire theatre of operations really occupies himself with managing single fighter pilots or making sure every remote garrison gets its monthly supply delivery. In my opinion the game is micromanagement hell.

And it's an incredible shame, because the concept behind it is unresistingly attractive and I can see why some like it even in its current incarnation. If they made a version of that game were you could spend more time actually fighting the war (and be able to finish it in a reasonable real-life timeframe) instead of babysitting every single freighter, fighter pilot and PT boat in the Pacific, it would definitely be worth 70$ and sell like naked girls covered in hot cakes smothered with chocolate. [;)]

[Gertjan]

I suppose WITP, is War in the pacific?

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Texashawk

... and welcome aboard, boys! I think this just might be your next addiction... [;)]

Steve

This is my emergency backup addiction for when my WITP:AE opponent hasn't sent his turn back yet...

[Jim D Burns]

WitP and the newer version of it WitP AE is probably the most in-depth complex wargame ever designed on the PC. I seriously doubt many average gamers would enjoy it just jumping in without first understanding the time needed just to learn the game well enough to become proficient at it would take months. You’re not going to be able to simply plug it in and go like most other PC games, it takes a huge commitment of time to get to a point where you can enjoy it.

Yes there are some interface issues, but the time required just to write the text for all the different units (probably close to 10,000 or more individual entries would be needed) in a mouse over text window pop-up would probably employ two or three full time employees for half a year or more easily. Stuff like that simply isn’t possible for a game this scale given the almost non-existent development budgets wargames like these have to deal with.

In a perfect world half a million people or more would buy a game like WitP and then developers could afford to pay people to plug in all the bells and whistles you so causally demand. WitP was originally done by just three guys. AE was put together by a large team of volunteers (perhaps a dozen guys), yet it still took them something like 3 + years to get it all done. And they didn’t get everything done they wanted to, there are still vast wish lists of items people hope “someday” might make it in the game.

The real miracle of WitP is that it ever got done in the first place. There is so much detail in there, I bet it would easily put to shame any college history course that covered WWII in the Pacific. Some have likened learning the game to writing a thesis.

Is it worth the price tag? For someone like me who loves military history most assuredly yes. If you enjoy deep detailed history about WWII in the Pacific, it’s a game that will simply amaze you. If you’re the kind of gamer that could care less about that and just wants to sail his carriers to attack something in the first 10 minutes, steer clear of it.

Jim

[Oldguard1970]

I am also hooked on War in the Pacific and on the Admirals' Edition as well.  The price is stunningly low if you measure money per hour.  Heck, I used to buy several wargames a year, but the only two games I have purchased in several years are WITP and WITP:AE.  (They are saving me money!  [:D])
 
I am browsing the DW forum to see if it might be my next purchase.  I was impressed with the speed of the first patch.  Now I want to see what happens.  Matrix has proven to me that it will stick with a good game and iron out any wrinkles.  If that happens to DW, then I'm off to space.

[2ndACR]

OldGuard, it is worth every penny.......I love the thing, it is currently replacing WITP AE as my main fix......no PBEM going because of real life schedule, but this baby is just amazing.

Buy it. You wont be disappointed. Promise

[Nemo84]

Jim, I'm not asking for walls of pop-up text on every object or something that allows me to charge my carriers at the nearest enemy in the first 10 minutes.

I'm asking for an easy overview screen to see what my ships are all doing and to easily select which ones are idling. For 100.000 man invasions that don't fail within minutes after hitting their objective because the game decided not to load half their ammo aboard their supply ships despite the player explicitly ordering it to do so, and not provide any indication it did this until that invasion fails horribly. For a system that does not even need the player to manually and explicitly specify an invasion force will need to be supplied, but will assume those soldier prefer receiving supplies over surrendering en masse to the enemy. And maybe I also have no interest in having to check whether Johnny, who currently pilots a fighter on Midway, needs to be rotated out for R&R and training next week. And then couple all that to an AI that won't waste an entire carrier air group for almost an entire week futilely trying to wipe out a single PT boat while entire transport convoys are sailing by without a problem.

If they're trying to charge me 70$, they should make sure they have a product that deserves that price. Being developed by a mere 3 people is at that price no excuse for the complaints I, and many many others who've tried the game, are having. Take this game here for example. Distant Worlds is also a very complex game which currently has some serious flaws and oversights in design due to having a tiny design team. But it's priced accordingly, and it's thus far less of a problem and will end up far more popular than WITP.

You say people equal learning the game to writing a thesis. Well, I am writing a thesis at the moment. I get paid rather well for doing so, and will end up with an important and valuable reward for it. The large majority of the population simply has neither the time nor interest in doing such an effort for a computer game. And the major reason it needs such an investment is because the developers can't be bothered to put in some automation features to help players along. You say in a perfect world half a million people would buy this game. I say they wouldn't, because it's more of a management job than a game. And if you think the game puts to shame a college history course I can only conclude you have some pretty lousy and easy colleges in your area.

It's no doubt a great game for a minority of hardcore grognards who have the time and will to put up with all those flaws. But it's just not a good game for even the average wargamer, let alone the aveerage gamer. And the current interface would receive some pretty harsh criticism in any college or university level interface design course.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Texashawk

... and welcome aboard, boys! I think this just might be your next addiction... [;)]

Steve

Are you really surprised that the WiTP, overly detailed, click-fest game playing grognards are in here with a very in-depth, detailed space 4X game? [;)]

[fflaguna]

WitP? What's that? [:D]

Downloading DW now... hopefully I'll have time in between my Pacific, War in the PBEM to play some tomorrow.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

WitP? What's that? [:D]

Downloading DW now... hopefully I'll have time in between my Pacific, War in the PBEM to play some tomorrow.

Beautiful ship there in your sig fflaguna. [:)]

[fflaguna]

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Hey Wodin I mentioned this in the other thread, is WITP Admirals really worth 70$?? That is just too expensive, plus hasn't WITP been out for a while now?

Even new games don't cost 70$!!!

I also want to comment on the fact that you pro-grognard gamers from WITP are supporting DW so much, it sends chills up my spine.

I was scared of spending $70 on a game I might not even like. Let me tell you... I'm so glad I accidentally forgot to read the negative posts in the forums. The negative posts like the guy who replied to you up above would have scared me away before I even tried it.

I have gotten WAAAY more than $70 of enjoyment out of it. If you have "extra money" to blow, you will not think it is a mistaken purchase.

[Titanwarrior89]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston









This is my emergency backup addiction for when my WITP:AE opponent hasn't sent his turn back yet...

Same here......[;)]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston









This is my emergency backup addiction for when my WITP:AE opponent hasn't sent his turn back yet...

Same here......[;)]

That explains why my opponent is in here then...but I did send him a turn today. I should get a prize. Hehehe. [:'(]

[Rosseau]

I'm in the interesting position of having bought every game in the series, but have only played Uncommon Valor so far due to time constraints. As such, Nemo84's comments seem quite reasonable, and I hope I do not experience the same issues that he has. Beyond that:

How hard would it be to program some automation in a patch or expansion? My guess is too hard...

I CAN get into a carrier battle in 10 minutes. It just took 15 minutes with the War Plan Orange editor!

I think the patch that allows me to play WITP AE in 1600 x 1050 is just wonderful.

You all have great points on this.

[Grotius]

I hope Distant Worlds has some of the depth of WITP or WITP/AE; I haven't explored this new game enough to be sure yet. If it is even half the game that AE is, then I will be thrilled, because AE is an incredible treatment of the war in the Pacific. Also, the AI in AE is much improved over WITP, at least as far as I can tell. Sure, the interface is a bit clunky and click-heavy, but the info is all there, and utilities like WITP Tracker sport a more "modern" UI that helps too.

AE is not for everybody; you have to be very interested in a serious treatment of the WITP to enjoy it, and you have to be willing to commit significant time and intellectual effort to it. But I have gotten my money's worth many times over.

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Hey Wodin I mentioned this in the other thread, is WITP Admirals really worth 70$?? That is just too expensive, plus hasn't WITP been out for a while now?

Even new games don't cost 70$!!!

I also want to comment on the fact that you pro-grognard gamers from WITP are supporting DW so much, it sends chills up my spine.

If you have a very keen interest in the Pacific War and have alot and I mean alot of time to spend playing it and learning the game mechanics then yes its worth $70 as you will get hours and hours and I mean HOURS of enjoyment out if it. IF you have a passing interest and\or havent much time to dedicate to the game then no it isn't. You will feel bogged down and probabley never really get anywhere with the game.

I waiting on War in the East another monster game that will cost around the same price but it doesnt have the economy or production to deal with. I'm also extremely interested in the East Front and have a fair amount of knowledge of the conflict so will feel immersed in the game. I know $70 will be money well spent.

[Gertjan]

War in the pacific interests me, but it seems too much micro management/detail for me. I will watch the hbo series