Supply usage

[Walloc]

Latest beta patch used.

I've noticed some quite dramatic differences in own supply usage when an enemy is bombarding you, even if u have ur units on reserve so they wont reply the fire. Actually it doesnt seem to make any significant difference if ur in combat mode or not. I wonder if this is WAD?

Listed in below posts is a few pic from days a siege of Bataan. A good example as there is no supply production or can come supply from else where.
The 1st pic is from a "normal" day with no action. Supply usesage in the few hundres.
2nd pic is from a day where there are an ENEMY bombardment. No friendly reply. Supply usage in the 3000-4000s.

Note that there are no airfield or port strikes so no supply hits nor have there been. As seen by no damage listed on the airfield/port.

I've checked the units and the supply isnt transfered to them as they have actually less supply than before the bombardment. This isnt a single occurance. It has gone by in a fortnights time with the supply at Bataan falling from 55k to those 9k. More or less exclusively from enemy bombardments along with a few deliberate attacks. Note he has bombarded 5 times and 2 deliberate attacks. Each attack reducing supply with between 3k-5k.

Its not that i dont understand and agree with the fact that when in combat ur supply usage is naturally higher, but i do wonder about how much supply u use cuz an enemy is bombarding you.

I did some head to head tests in China. During 2 turns of bombardment where the japanease had advanced to the major front line cities and did bombardments only. Chinease theater supply fell from 200k to less then 50k and every chinease unit in those cities was in red supply at the end of those 2 days. Interrestingly enough tho the error of margine is higher cuz of influx of supply it seems the japanease player used much less supply. As he can put art units only on bombardment and not divs. With the effect of only the art using higher supply usage where as the defender have no such options per say.
As said i dont seem to matter much if in defence or reserve mode.

Im concerned about the effect of this. Basicly no need for HRs agaisnt no china strategic bombing since u can burn enemy supply via bombardment at an alarming rate. Or u need more HRs [:D]
Its not that im against the idea or dont understand the idea behind that u can burn enemy supplies its just the current level seems excessive and can have a profond effect on game play. Obviously at places like Bataan running out of supply did have a profond effect. Its the rate of supply usage that is the concern to me. Why would enemy bombarment make ur supply usage rise with a factor of 20-1 or so.
Sieges like Bataan, Singapore, Tinian, Okinawa and so on can with this knowledge and use be a matter of over and done with in matter of days instead of "months". Plus the whole China issue is a seperate matter.

As it is as of now. Its actually an attacker the determains both the defenders and his own supply usagge. By placing a single art unit on bombardment u can make an entire stack of defenders as per above Bataan example use "full" supply usage of those 3k-5k while keeping ur own supply usage down to 1 art unit which is negliant.

This leads to IMHO an extremly gamey siutiasion and unrealistic for that matter.

I hope the devs will look into if there is a bug or if this feature of the game needs to be changed. it has an effect on game play even if ppl arent gaming this as ppl just use the bombardment feature normally.
To me it would seem to be more in line with the changes done to the bombardment function through out the patches so it helps in attacks rather than being a weapon in it self. That it shouldnt cost the defender supply to be bombarded. As of now it doesnt do much in terms damage, but is offensivly "purely" a supply suck feature. With out costing the attacker much to any thing. As said that doesnt seem to be inline with the general changes to the bombardment function/attack.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

Next day after no action, added supply from subs.

[Walloc]

after a day of enemy bombardment

[BigJ62]

When a unit that is eligible to fire then they will which in turn drives up their shot count. Example if unit that has a normal supply requirement of 1000 with no shots fired and fires one shot it adds 10% to it's supply requirement up to a maximum of 10 shots which can double a units supply requirement.

You said you started with 55k yet your supply limit at the base is 32k which means spoilage.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

When a unit that is eligible to fire then they will which in turn drives up their shot count. Example if unit that has a normal supply requirement of 1000 with no shots fired and fires one shot it adds 10% to it's supply requirement up to a maximum of 10 shots which can double a units supply requirement.

Ok, i get this.
I do think its should be reconsidered if it should be working like this in regards to bombardment/ possibly ship bombardments /air bombardments.
Using Bataan as an example. As u state Bataan has a limited supply limit. If by doing 10 days of bombardment you cause the opponent to lose 3k+ supply times 10=30k+.
That means after 10 days of bombardment Bataan would be void of supply and ripe for taking. Considering the time it toke historicly, it seems very fast. Even allowing for a higher supply limit and actual supply, the factor is off by a fair margin.
Its not that we in any way should be slaves of history.

Im more concerned by the effect this introduce to the game.
Main problem is as i see it. Is that it in game induce an effect that makes bombardment king of enemy supply usage. While it costs ur self almost nothing. Just 1 unit on bombarment trigger the effect u describe as WAD.
As opposed to do deliberate/shock attacks where the risk to ur self is a whole other story.
So i see no problem with this working like this for those kinda attacks since risk/reward options is very diffirent.

This can be used/abused. Ofc this goes both ways. In the extrem it means every one should bombard in every hex
with one unit to trigger the enemy to respond there by using heigthtend supply usage. Since u dont take casulties per "new" bombardment rules its basicly cost free in term of casulties.
Problem is then what is abuse and what is use. Question is with if bombardment not used in conjunction with attacks as per functions now has any other use than draining supply and if that is desireble.

Should bombardments have that effect?
Should they be "kings" of enemy supply usage.

I wonder if that is the effect the devs aiming at strategicly/operationally. As per above post China can be drained of supply in a jiffy. I can only see that it has the effect on siege like situasion that it will make them go very fast. If u first drain supply by bombardments.
U dont have much choice as a defender in that situasion in chosing not to reply the fire and there by supply usage.
Theoritically u could set ur entire force on reserve. Note that it doesnt seem to have much effect on the supply usage as i tried that in the China example and it didnt seem to matter much. Plus if an attacker attacks then ur toast.
So using that option land combat becomes a question of a cat and mouse game. When does he bombard, when do he attack. Who guesses right. Is that desired?

You said you started with 55k yet your supply limit at the base is 32k which means spoilage.

Yup and i have followed the spoilage via tracker. There hasnt been a drop in supply when no attacks occured much above 500ish other than turns when enemy bombards/attacks and in those cases 3k-5k.
So ofc some of supply has been lost to spoilage but that doesnt seem to have been all that high. Especially not when compared to the supply used up by enemy bombardment.

I also wonder what is actually happening. i've used tracker to see what happens in every turn since i've had less than 32k supply to discount any spoilage.
Why is it that on a normal turn i use around max 500 supply, but on a bombarded turn 3k+. If as u suggest that u can max use 100% more supply. 100% more of 500 is 1k'ish. Thats pretty far from the 3k+.
That said trackers supply needed column does indeed rise to approx 100% more on the bombarded turns, but the actual supply usage is many times more than 100%.
I wonder why. Bug?

Any how in the end. I think the devs should consider/reconsider what the effect of
When a unit that is eligible to fire then they will which in turn drives up their shot count
does to the game and tactics ppl can/will use. When the question comes to bombardment as per new bombardment effect casulty wise.
As is now u have an effect on the enemy will use dramticly more supply. Is that the effect u want it too have forming ppls use of this as a tactic.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Chryse]

In the example the OP gave (screenshots) he was already well below the 32k cap so spoilage isn't an issue in the example given. As to shot count adding to usage, that's fine but in order for him to use 4,000 supply in one day even with max shot count he would have to have normal usage of 2,000 supply per day. Certainly those troops are not eating 2,000 supply per day normally. Are they?

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Chryse

In the example the OP gave (screenshots) he was already well below the 32k cap so spoilage isn't an issue in the example given. As to shot count adding to usage, that's fine but in order for him to use 4,000 supply in one day even with max shot count he would have to have normal usage of 2,000 supply per day. Certainly those troops are not eating 2,000 supply per day normally. Are they?

To add to that per above picture the supply req at the day of the attack is 8700 which is per month as i understand it or 300 per day. So yes question is how can the troops consistantly use 4000 per day then.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[BigJ62]

post a before and after save and I'll look based on the pics.

[Walloc]

77 before, 78 after. PMing password.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

78 file

[BigJ62]

I see nothing in those pics that indicate units are consuming 4k supply per day. So a unit doubles its supply req and the base gives it to the unit does not mean it actually consumes that much. If the units shot count goes back to normal then any excess supply would go back base. Supply consumption per day is requirement divided by 30.

At 55k there would have been 690 spoilage per day the amount decreasing as we get closer to 32k.

He is (re)building a fort which at level 1 and 223 eng would have cost 111 supply per day.

His av is increasing so is he repairing only or taking replacements? In either case it drives up supply requirements and if taking replacements then there is a supply cost.

Walloc is incorrect, units in reserve mode do not fire unless the game has to put the unit back into combat mode. When a defender fires they use every unit not in reserve mode.

"I've checked the units and the supply isnt transfered to them as they have actually less supply than before the bombardment. This isnt a single occurance. It has gone by in a fortnights time with the supply at Bataan falling from 55k to those 9k. More or less exclusively from enemy bombardments along with a few deliberate attacks. Note he has bombarded 5 times and 2 deliberate attacks. Each attack reducing supply with between 3k-5k."

ORIGINAL: Chryse

In the example the OP gave (screenshots) he was already well below the 32k cap so spoilage isn't an issue in the example given. As to shot count adding to usage, that's fine but in order for him to use 4,000 supply in one day even with max shot count he would have to have normal usage of 2,000 supply per day. Certainly those troops are not eating 2,000 supply per day normally. Are they?

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
His av is increasing so is he repairing only or taking replacements? In either case it drives up supply requirements and if taking replacements then there is a supply cost.

"I've checked the units and the supply isnt transfered to them as they have actually less supply than before the bombardment. This isnt a single occurance. It has gone by in a fortnights time with the supply at Bataan falling from 55k to those 9k. More or less exclusively from enemy bombardments along with a few deliberate attacks. Note he has bombarded 5 times and 2 deliberate attacks. Each attack reducing supply with between 3k-5k."

Just went trough tracker for all units on Bataan for turn 54. No units recieved any replacements. A few devices added in turn 53, the pre turn, but only some lost in 54 non recieved. Looking at tracker only gives hints to repairing and it doesnt seem like much, but i cant be sure by looking at tracker.

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Walloc is incorrect, units in reserve mode do not fire unless the game has to put the unit back into combat mode. When a defender fires they use every unit not in reserve mode.

That is my understanding too, why i was supprised by the head to head test in China. No units had replacement on in that test btw. Just stating what i see.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[BigJ62]

Before cbt

Base supply 13566
Base req 5862
Unit supply 6222
Unit req 5862

After cbt and supply phase

Base supply 9844
Base req 8718
Unit supply 9078
Unit req 8718

Net difference is 1232 a far cry from 4k so between adding replacements and building forts and cbt and being hit by a lot of air groups supply consumption/loss per day seems about right considering how many units you have in the hex.

Unit 5507 before cbt
sup 404
req 394

after cbt and supply phase

sup 734
req 724

I'm not seeing a bug here.

[Walloc]

Ok thx for looking James.

Kind regards,

Rasmus