What If

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 1:40 am

In the Spirt of these little mini polls popping up i ask you what do you think is the most interesting what if of World War 2...

I would have to say..
What if Hitler hadn't of been a bumbling fool and ordered the SS Panzer Divisions in Normandy to be under his personal command? Not much of a what if since we know what would of happened.

BORO · Post by **BORO** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:47 am

Interesting..........how bout
What If the Japanese had launched the third wave and attacked and destroyed the Oil/Fuel depot at Pearl Harbor. I think the end result would of been much the same, but giving them another 3-6 months of time to ravage the pacific would of made things a bit harder.

Or better yet, what if our Aircraft Carriers had been in port?

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:57 am

that is a real "what if" question Hades. Because, although the panzer divisions were held in Hitler's pocket, I don't believe that they would have had an easy time at "pushing the allies back into the sea."
The Allies had a tremendous amount of naval and air support that could have really put a dent in any counter attack. Now, I'm not saying they couldn't have done it....the American beaches in particular were very shaky those first 12 hours or so and an immediate counterattack may well have succeeded in some areas. However, it can not be said that any German CounterAttack would have certainly changed the course of the invasion. Losses would have been higher perhaps...and gains measured by yards rather than miles...but it's hard to believe that in the face of total air superiority and a heavy naval barrage that even the panzers could have changed the day completely.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:14 am

Good point Orzel. Where is your what if?

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:21 am

The Nazis had developed the Bomb before the Americans did?:eek:

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:32 am

What if Hitler had let his Generals run the war from the beginning, without interruption from him. No Barbarossa. Uh-oh.

Goblin- A Goblin is glad he didn't;)

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:48 am

would be what would have happened had any one of the various military plots to remove (either jailing or death ) Hitler had actually succeeded?
Would the Allies have made a seperate peace with a Germany not under his (or SS) control at some point? Hmmmmmmm?

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:51 am

'But for a nail, the battle was lost...'

There's so many. How about if the Brits hadn't put up their spirited defense of the Balkans. Many German units which were slated to be in Barbarossa were instead sent there, delaying its jump-off date by over 2 months. Imagine 2 less months of Soviet preparation; and also of T-34 production which had pretty much just begun at that point. Most importantly Hoth, Hoeppner and Guderian would have completed the Bryansk encirclements and been 35 miles from Moscow 2-3 months before the first snow.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:56 am

What if Churchill decided to send Brittish Troops to help the Fins. There was talk of it.

Kevin E. Duguay · Post by **Kevin E. Duguay** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:49 am

Whay if Hitler never invaded Poland? Germany would have become the greatest military echonomic power in Europe. He could have controled Europe with out firing a shot. And if Russia reared its ugly head It may have become the Great Western Crusade to save Europe from communisim.

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:32 am

What if the Germans realized that Enigma was compromised, and also, what if the Japanese realized that their Purple code was being broken? I realize that these codes weren't being universally read by the Allies, but I'm sure the war against the U-boats would be a bit different, and the U.S. would have less warning of where the Japanese would strike at the Battle of Midway. I'm sure some big Strategic decisions would have been made differently without the valuble Allied codebreaking info.

antarctic · Post by **antarctic** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:48 am

Guys... The biggest "What if"..

What if man could live in harmony with each other... and there would be no conflicts....

Antarctic

Knife · Post by **Knife** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:35 am

There had been no WW2?
Hitler had not been bombed?
Pearl Harbour had not been attacked?

Some to think about...

gnoccop · Post by **gnoccop** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:14 pm

What if Mussolini did't declare war against France and UK?

What if Hitler sent more armored troop in North Africa?
What if Italy captured Malta?
What if Franco join Axis and take Gibilter?

ananias · Post by **ananias** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:26 pm

Originally posted by Jack
What if Churchill decided to send Brittish Troops to help the Fins. There was talk of it.

**** it, that was my "what if"!;)

Well, I´ll think up another one......Let´s see.....

What if Germany had treated Estonians, Latvians, Ukrainians and other such people better after "freeing" them in 1941? Those people considered the Germans as their liberators at first. The Germans might have had a few million more allies to fight the Soviets. Just my 1 cent.

El_Peco · Post by **El_Peco** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:14 pm

What if Stalingrad felt in German hands?

Egg_Shen · Post by **Egg_Shen** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:41 am

I think it would be good if Hitler made the bomb first, then we wouldn't have the russians and americans running around with nukes like a 5 year olds with sharp scissors.

The German people would have all of Europe, Russia, Canada and Africa, Japanese get all of Asia and Australia. Italy bailed out too soon the get nothing.

And if the Americans were good boys and girls they would be allowed a happy alliance with the axis powers.

We would have no military conflicts and terrorist attacks, world hunger and disease would be cured, people would be free in all parts of the world...etc

This is what the Axis powers were fighting for, no?

But we turned out ok otherwise

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:21 am

Originally posted by Egg_Shen
people would be free in all parts of the world...etc

Not!

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:01 am

the silliest thing I've ever read on this forum. I hope you were joking...if not you need some serious history lessons my friend.

Now perhaps you will say that I am bias because I am an American...but Hitler with the bomb? The world better off with the Nazis and Imperialist Japanese governing seperate spheres?

Have you heard of the word "Concentration Camp" Egg_Shen? Or how about the Rape of Nanking? The Axis Powers were not exactly Noble Peace Prize candidates.

Easy8 · Post by **Easy8** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:12 am

Errr????:( :rolleyes:

Just a suggestion, but before this gets rolling, I think we should keep the flame/troll wars in the Art of Wargaming Forum.

I would be happy to discuss the "merits" of that statement over there.

One reason I retreated from there.

What If

What If

Hmmm...well actually

What if

My What If....

What if?

What if...

That is Without a Doubt....

re:I think it would be good if Hitler made the bomb first,