The Bocage

[Mad Russian]

I want to look forward for a moment. I want to start thinking of the most defining terrain feature in the world and what it will take to model it.

I don't know of a single gamer that has thought it's ever been modeled correctly in a wargame yet.

We've had some pretty detailed discussions about other subjects, so I thought since PCO is wrapping up we might be able to find something about PC4 to discuss.

The bocage and what it will take to model it CORRECTLY seems like a natural subject to bring you all in on.

So, what do YOU think? What will it take to have an accurate representation of the bocage?

Good Hunting.

MR




The formidable barriers presented by the hedgerows and the military characteristics of the Bocage seem to have taken First Army by complete surprise. Despite Allied planners' awareness of the nature of the Bocage, American commanders had done little to prepare their units for fighting among the hedgerows. Preoccupied with the myriad problems of the D-Day landings, American leaders had failed to see the battlefield in depth and had paid little attention to the potential problems of hedgerow combat. As early as 8 June, General Bradley called the Bocage the "damndest country I've seen." General Collins of VII Corps was equally surprised by the nature of the hedgerow terrain and told General Bradley on 9 June that the Bocage was as bad as anything he had encountered on Guadalcanal. Brigadier General James M. Gavin, the assistant division commander of the 82d Airborne, best summarized the surprise of the senior American leadership: "Although there had been some talk in the U.K. before D-Day about the hedgerows, none of us had really appreciated how difficult they would turn out to be."

[Mad Russian]

Here are some of the comments made concerning the bocage from the US POV:

"Despite Allied planners' awareness of the nature of the Bocage, American commanders had done little to prepare their units for fighting among the hedgerows. Preoccupied with the myriad problems of the D-Day landings, American leaders had failed to see the battlefield in depth and had paid little attention to the potential problems of hedgerow combat." They knew the bocage was there but they didn't actually wrestle with the problems beyond the beachhead and envisaged bold maneuvers across the countryside.

"Even though the hedgerows were serious impediments to offensive operations, the primary obstacle holding up the American advance was the German defense." Goes on to explain that the Germans took advantage of the compartmentalized terrain. I have read elsewhere that the Germans never figured out how to counterattack through this terrain at any scale, though.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

The solution was better small-unit leadership and combining arms at a lower level than had been doctrinally envisaged. Basically, pin the Germans down with indirect fire, engineers create lanes of mobility, further fires from tanks, infantry close and destroy. Technical innovations such as the Cullen device were helpful, but the real solutions were tactical and had to be practiced, practiced, practiced.


Of course, the bocage will need to be able to be breached with explosives and the Cullen Device in the game.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Another shot of the Cullen Device.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Here you can find a Combat Studies article on how the U.S. Army viewed operations in the bocage.

http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/resources/csi/ ... oubler.asp

Good Hunting.

MR 

[Mad Russian]

Here is what we are looking at as being a "typical" hedgerow setting. Often vehicles couldn't turn around in the lanes between the hedgerows. In this picture you can see why.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Even where the roads are wider it's very 'tight' terrain.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

More infantry and hedgerows.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

The problem is that it's not always impenetrable.

Good Hunting.

MR

[diablo1]

Oh no don't tell me....hedgerows and bocage are going to become the new "grass"!??

Well that means you can look for this game about 2016 guys if that.

[Mad Russian]

Oh no, I'm telling you that hedgerows are going to be important, like they were in real life.

I'm amazed that you have an issue with the grass mods. What part of combat do you think vegetation takes in LOS/LOF if it's not important? You seem to think that without the grass the game would be better. Could be but the grass isn't eye candy, it's a functional part of the game. While I didn't ask for it to be implemented I can see where it makes a huge difference in game play.

As to your 2016 time frame, only a solid release date for PC4 will tell when that will be.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mobius]

I'd worry about hedge rows right after I worry about the right way to do paratroops.

[Mad Russian]

I'm assuming you're discussing paratroopers actually floating down to earth. The part between plane and ground. Actual paratroop drops are a special event that added altogether, maybe, covered a week of WWII and a few divisions at most. The hedgerows effected entire Armies for months.

For me, that's a significant difference of scale, but maybe others would rather see para drops modeled before we look at how to model the hedgerows....

Good Hunting.

MR

[rickier65]

seems like we'll definitely need to decide how to handle Hedgerows for ealing with NWE.

Were gaps blown in hedgerows by tanks/art to facilitate advances?

thanks
rick

[Mad Russian]

They tried different solutions.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Of course the Germans weren't asleep all that time.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Many units developed their own tactics for breaking through the hedgerows. Here are the 3rd Armored Division methods.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

Here is the 83rd Infantry Division answer.

Good Hunting.

MR

[diablo1]

after I worry about the right way to do paratroops

Now we're talking that's definitely more important than "grass" or "hedgerow or bocage" to me. I certainly want paratroop units more so than "grass". [:)]

Besides a very simple way to handle hedgerows was to set them on fire like my uncle told me they did.

[Mad Russian]

What unit was your Uncle with again? It's been a long time since our discussion of his participation in the Battle of the Bulge. I'm sorry to say I've forgotten his unit.

I agree too that paratroopers are extremely important. Not so much the paradrop itself.

Good Hunting.

MR