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Augusto
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Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 4:20 am

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Post by Augusto »

I am palying against the computer Max help soviet. As I see the game is now much more dificult (v3.2) I never had problem to win in this condition with the original game.

So I started my first game with confidebce on my old trciks. Result : a Draw on polish border :o

Now on a second game winter 1942 I took Leningrad but I foresee troubles again.

So my questions are:

No matter how many times I tried to bomb saratov no objective was hit. Why?

The same thing happen with maikop. One hit for 3 to 4 attempts

The JU 87D cant be select to be produced, so as the computer changes the production for this plane the amount produced isnt enough to compensate my losses. Can I do somethig to change this?

thanks in advance
Preuss
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Location: Australia

Post by Preuss »

Bombing cities is an iffy tactic for the Axis countries. It takes a lot of sorties for anything to be accomplished. Low experience means poorer results as well. I think the Germans get penalized for not having the Norden bombsight...but that's just my opinion.
AS for producing Ju-87D's...try changing a factory over to Ju-87B...it should upgrade eventually. I've never tried it, myself...but will test it shortly. To kepp your Ju-87 losses to a minimum, give them a lot of escorts.
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.
Ed Cogburn
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Preuss
I think the Germans get penalized for not having the Norden bombsight...but that's just my opinion.

The Norden bombsight didn't live up to its hype. Besides, the Germans did have it, a spy got the plans for it. The Americans never knew that until after the war was over.
Preuss
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Location: Australia

Post by Preuss »

Zo then, Herr Cogburn....
Vy kan der Luftwaffe airmen hit a tank in a 20 mile square, possibly kamoflaged und on ze move, and yet be unable to shtrike a large, smoke belching refinery mit no mobility? Flak interference? Smoke screens? Pardon the cheek...I just really want to know.
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.
RickyB
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Preuss
Zo then, Herr Cogburn....
Vy kan der Luftwaffe airmen hit a tank in a 20 mile square, possibly kamoflaged und on ze move, and yet be unable to shtrike a large, smoke belching refinery mit no mobility? Flak interference? Smoke screens? Pardon the cheek...I just really want to know.
The noive, what cheek. I think the differences are from a number of factors, but primarily the difficulty in knocking out a factory compared to a single tank, or group. As you say, the flak makes a difference, and the Soviets had a huge force of flak weapons defending their cities. The Germans were never really able to drop enough loads of bombs in part due to this.

However, I look at it this way - a tank gets hit or comes close and it is out of action, at least requiring repair from near hits that might flip them over. A factory can be hit numerous times but the equipment salvages and production resumed quickly - like Speer accomplished. The more bombs hit, the less likely this can happen. An example would be the large tank factories in Stalingrad which kept turning out tanks for awhile after fighting reached the area, even though the factories were damaged.

Also some parts of the factory, hidden under a roof, are more critical than others, which again means numbers of bombs are important, as wiping out the workers lunchroom causes less damage than the vat of molten steel. And there were smoke generators used by some nations, and other camouflage by all sides. Add fake smokestacks, shut the factory down before the bombers arrive, and what is the actual smokestack?

Good question, and I doubt I have answered it completely.
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


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Bernard
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Location: Belgium

Post by Bernard »

There is report written by the airforce on strategic bombing somewhere on the net (mustn't be hard to find)

i think it basically says you needed so many tons of bomb to hit so much of an industry.

Americans hit in daylight with better accuracy, but still were unable to really disrupt production totally (for many reason, many in hts tread). the brits bombed city with as much result as when germans bombed Coventry.

I think they realiezd late in the war that bombing should target some key factories like
- gas/petrol/kerozene/fuel production
- bearings
- rubber etc

Reasoning was : why destroy wheels of your car + windshield, take out hlf the egine when you know it won't work without a spark. Take the spark out.

Bestr regards
Ben

Verzage ni
Ed Cogburn
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Preuss
Zo then, Herr Cogburn....
Vy kan der Luftwaffe airmen hit a tank in a 20 mile square, possibly kamoflaged und on ze move, and yet be unable to shtrike a large, smoke belching refinery mit no mobility? Flak interference? Smoke screens? Pardon the cheek...I just really want to know.

In addition to what Rick said, destroying heavy industry is not as easy as you'd think. Often after a bombardment the Germans would crawl out their bomb shelters, return to the factory building only to find it collapsed, but when they removed the rubble they would discover their industral equipment largely intact. Apparently, the machines themselves were pretty tough, not really vulnerable except to a direct hit or near miss. Killing a tank is actually easier. Anyway the Germans would get the machines back in order, replace the few that were destroyed, throw a shed over everything and restart production in just a few days. I was surprised to hear a similar story for Ploesti. You would think some direct hits on an oil refinery would set the oil on fire and destroy the whole place, but thats not what happened. Ploesti was a spread out operation, not concentrated in one place, so nearby refineries would continue to operate while the damaged ones were repaired. The Allies never did completely knock out production there.

I'm going to take a wild guess as say that the Germans didn't concentrate on strategic bombing in the east much because firstly most of the Soviets heavy production was out of range, east of the Urals. Secondly, the Germans were not big believers in strategic bombing, the Luftwaffe existed to serve the Army. They did mount raids on Moscow and other targets, but those obvious targets were well defended with barrage balloons and flak, so the results were mixed. They never developed any kind of strategic bombing concept like the Western Allies.
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