A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

[jetjockey]

Help! It's April '42, scenario 1, and I have been stopped at Palembang, Moulmein, and Rabaul. In China I face many stacks of 100,000+ Chinese troops, and now I find his carriers immune to my LBA:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Lahat at 46,94

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 95 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 37 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 58
G3M2 Nell x 25



Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 6
Martlet II x 18
F4F-3A Wildcat x 26
F4F-3 Wildcat x 33


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 6 destroyed, 8 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 2 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
CV Lexington
CL Hobart
CV Formidable



Aircraft Attacking:
13 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-42 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 13 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 34300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 8 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes



---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Lahat at 46,94

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 13 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 24



Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 3
Martlet II x 2
F4F-3A Wildcat x 13
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CV Formidable
CV Indomitable
CV Lexington



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-42 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 123 minutes
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 75 minutes
VF-8 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 93 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes

I got one torpedo hit from the second wave, which turned out to be a dud; third or fourth 18" dud of the game.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Dan Nichols]

It looks like he has at least 5 CVs there, you are going to need more than what you have.

[msudrala8]

I thought I read somewhere on the forum it was not a good idea to stack CV's in a single TF, better to spread them out say 1 CV to a task force.
This good advice as I'm gearing up for some massive attacks and need all the advantage I can get. Playing Allies BTW.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

I thought I read somewhere on the forum it was not a good idea to stack CV's in a single TF, better to spread them out say 1 CV to a task force.
This good advice as I'm gearing up for some massive attacks and need all the advantage I can get. Playing Allies BTW.

Definitely , as attacks will go for any ships in the hex .. so CV TF's have to be in separate hexes or one lucky attack could sink the lot even if they are in different TF's . You will most likely be limited by escorts early on however.

[jetjockey]

It doesn't appear that stacking 5 (or 7) allied CVs affects coordination. I have been on the receiving end of several large, coordinated strikes. I have only penetrated his defenses once with a CA task force (sank one, damaged another CV).

[Commander Stormwolf]

looks like only 23 planes made runs at the carriers --> the rest were shot down or turned back [X(]


if you don't have enough fighters to escort, consider using Mavis and Emily for torpedo attack

[Chickenboy]

Hi jetjockey,

I'm not seeing anything overtly wrong with your combat report. You've got outnumbered A6M2s escorting a pretty small attack package. Against all but unarmed opponents, Nells are brittle, particularly into a formidable CAP.

In your first attack, your escort did well-considering. Half of your Nells (12) made attack runs on fast-moving combatants. They were probably harried all the way. Not surprisingly-you scored no hits.

In the second attack, 24 unescorted Nells attack into a CAP that more than outnumbers them. They get shredded. About what I'd expect.

The listing of the combat report showing all his CVs in "one TF" may be FOW. He may have them in multiple supporting TFs in the same hex, but this can be hard to discern.

[Hanzberger]

Post some of your China screen shots. I would like to hear what CB has to say. [&o]

[jetjockey]

OK. China is not going so well. Quite frankly, I'm gettin' my but kicked! I've already sent a number of divisions (four or five) and numerous other LCUs back for refit; I have three of these divisions garrisoning Tientsin, barely. I had been advancing on Lanchow, now those forces are in full retreat. I've attached a map with approximate troop numbers for the general areas.

[jetjockey]

Southern China is worse...

[jetjockey]

That advance toward Lanchow was a disaster. I went over the river with three regiments and two independent mixed brigades, all well lead and amply supplied against four Chinese LCUs. This is what I have left...

[Commander Stormwolf]

Do not fight the chinese troops, fight the chinese supplies

[Chickenboy]

Clear terrain (not rough, forest, mountain, etc.) would be my first line goal.

At the beginning of the game, Chinese units start with *some* supply. Your opponent has done a good job of pulling back into a series of defensive lines in rough terrain. When combined with some expedient fortifications, they are capable of fending off your advances, particularly across a river-unless you have overwhelming strength (which it didn't sound like you did-can you post the combat report with 'adjusted' AVs and combat modifiers?)

My first phase goal is liquidation of the enemy within the Nanyang-Chengchow-Loyang triangle. Near a rail line that you should control, the Chinese cannot hold this ground. It's also near your airfields, so daily LBA bombing of his troops can help to start softening them. Cut off this triangle from Sian and then reduce the cities present. You haven't done this yet-this area appears to be a focus of strength for the Chinese when it should be a deathtrap. In fact, there are many 'open' terrain cities and Chinese troop concentrations on your maps.

Other 'open' terrain troop concentrations that you should retain as short-term goals (or at least consideration): Sian, the tri-city triangle just west of Changsa and a few others should be considered as well. You appear to have dispersed a number of your troops in the far north (who cares about Lanchow?), so you may want to consider concentration of your forces to match his larger stacks.

Bomb the **** out of his Chinese troops, especially if they're on the move. It will eventually pay dividends. A Chinese stack of 100,000, if subjected to 500 casualties by daily bombardment will find itself out of supply, heavily disrupted and fatigued within a few weeks. In clear terrain, they can be pushed out then. Follow their retreat and butcher them as they run in disarray.

Good luck!

[jetjockey]

Ground combat at 82,34 (near Lanchow)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 20617 troops, 192 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 710

Defending force 33231 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1172

Japanese adjusted assault: 392

Allied adjusted defense: 1485

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
4772 casualties reported
Squads: 320 destroyed, 122 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 171 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 75 (40 destroyed, 35 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
390 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 78 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled


Assaulting units:
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
15th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army
11th Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
76th Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps

Followed by...

Ground combat at 82,34 (near Lanchow)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 32741 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1109

Defending force 14999 troops, 159 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 331

Allied adjusted assault: 283

Japanese adjusted defense: 123

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
4778 casualties reported
Squads: 111 destroyed, 113 disabled
Non Combat: 148 destroyed, 37 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 35 (19 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Units retreated 7


Allied ground losses:
1929 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 204 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
82nd Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps

Defending units:
15th Ind.Mixed Brigade
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
11th Field Artillery Regiment

[Commander Stormwolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEC2h6HJ48o

[X(]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi jetjockey,

I'm not seeing anything overtly wrong with your combat report. You've got outnumbered A6M2s escorting a pretty small attack package. Against all but unarmed opponents, Nells are brittle, particularly into a formidable CAP.

In your first attack, your escort did well-considering. Half of your Nells (12) made attack runs on fast-moving combatants. They were probably harried all the way. Not surprisingly-you scored no hits.

In the second attack, 24 unescorted Nells attack into a CAP that more than outnumbers them. They get shredded. About what I'd expect.

The listing of the combat report showing all his CVs in "one TF" may be FOW. He may have them in multiple supporting TFs in the same hex, but this can be hard to discern.

+1

A realistic attack would need +100 fighters escorting +200 attack bombers. Double that is better. Vals will have the best hit percentage, but also the highest losses. Netties are very long odds to hit against CV's. Use Kates instead. You can send in Sally's if your pilots have NavBomb trained >50. Against allied CV's, you need to completely overwhelm his defenses. He's got +100 fighters for you to get through.

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

This is what I have left...

Yep. Japan can afford very few mistakes and depending on situation NO major drawbacks during the first couple of months of the game. Or you're screwed - as in, game over man, game over. Whats your situation in the DEI and Burma? Once you have the primary targets in Malaya, Sumatra, Java and Timor cleared you should have troops to relocate where they're needed the most.

[bradfordkay]

It is my belief that your opponent does not have all his allied CVs in one TF, but rather has them in multiple TFs in the same hex. In WITP, a naval strike would only hit the ships of a single TF in any hex and this was changed for AE where a naval strike will hit ships from any or all of the TFs in a single hex. Carrier combat has a much more realistic feel in AE because of this.

If he has too many CVs together for your air units to get through, make use of your submarine forces. You can whittle down those carriers with a few well placed torpedoes.

[bradfordkay]

sorry, guys.. double post. It happens when a PM arrives right as you click "submit"!

[Puhis]

I'm not sure what is replacement rate of Chinese infantry squads, but my one goal in China is to kill at least 300 squads/month. And not to destroy Chinese units, even when my opponent is trying to get them killed.