Base Information Question

[gunny3013]

On the base information screen under the heading, "Support" there is a "Support Required" and an "Aviation Support Required." If the aviation support required is a 6, what exactly does that mean? Are the aircraft tenders listed with support numbers? This is the only portion of the game that seems to be confusing.

[PeteG662]

AV support required = 6 means you have six planes at the base that require support. Tenders should be included in the count now.

[gunny3013]

"Tenders should be included in the count now."

What does that mean?

What does standard Support Required mean? What satisfies it?

The rule book that came with my game is in tatters and only states the obvious totally missing any explanation of the details of Base Support.
Thank you for your assistance. [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

"Tenders should be included in the count now."

What does that mean?

What does standard Support Required mean? What satisfies it?

The rule book that came with my game is in tatters and only states the obvious totally missing any explanation of the details of Base Support.
Thank you for your assistance. [:)]

At the risk, as always, of being wrong when answering a rules question:

1) Support required is points of support needed to cover the LCUs. If there is less support than required the LCUs behave sub-optimally. Support required is the sum of the support demanded by all LCUs at the base. Support is the sum of all the support provided by the base, any HQs at the base, naval support squads, etc, and the organic support in each LCU totalled up. Pick a small base with only 1-2 LCU at it and check. I checked Hilo and the figures add up.

2) Aviation support is the support provided by LCUs which have aviation support devices in their TOE. It's one line if they have this, labeled"Aviaiton Support." LCUS with this type of support can also have Support and Motorized Support as well; it varies by unit. All the aviaiton support pools and is matched against aviation support demanded by aircraft based at that airbase. How much they need is more complicated, and is covered in the manual. Aviation support tops out at 250 per base (there are esoteric times more is better but stay basic for now.)

3) Aviation support provided by tenders such as AVDs is listed after a plus sign on the Aviation support line: "35 +7" The +7 is support for float planes. I don't think tenders can support land-based planes, but I may be wrong. I virtually never run a base with only an AV-type aviaiton support present.

[gunny3013]

[&:] Let me see if I understand you correctly. There is no list indicating what support different units provide so we gotta just stab at it? Seriously?

The ONLY rule on the subject in this rule book is a few paragraphs at the bottom of page 205 that over state the obvious and little else. Is there other rules in the book covering Base Support?

Is there a place where a person can get a list of the acronyms used in this game?

Thanks.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

[&:] Let me see if I understand you correctly. There is no list indicating what support different units provide so we gotta just stab at it? Seriously?

The ONLY rule on the subject in this rule book is a few paragraphs at the bottom of page 205 that over state the obvious and little else. Is there other rules in the book covering Base Support?

Is there a place where a person can get a list of the acronyms used in this game?

Thanks.

"Support" is a device that is found in various units. HQ's tend to have a lot of "Support" Devices. Other Units also have "Support" devices. All of these 'support' devices are totaled in the "Support" entry for a base.

"Support" Required is function of most of the "Non Support" devices ie Squad Devices and Gun Devices and AFV Devices which all require "Support" devices to function optimally.

[gunny3013]

OK, well I get it guys, units and vessels provide support. How much support! Where is it listed? Do all units provide it and why is it not in the rule book?

P.S. I appreciate your assistance but the link you provided goes to as of yet an undeveloped site (nothing there).

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

OK, well I get it guys, units and vessels provide support. How much support! Where is it listed? Do all units provide it and why is it not in the rule book?

P.S. I appreciate your assistance but the link you provided goes to as of yet an undeveloped site (nothing there).

Click on a unit...look at the devices in the unit ...one of the device will say "Support" the number necxt to it is how much support the unit carries with it.

Page 182 of the rulebook

[gunny3013]

Thank You. [:)]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

Thank You. [:)]

Also refer to page 182 of the rule book... 8.2.1 Unit information screen...last paragraph on the page.

[gunny3013]

I went to page 182 last paragraph. It only covers individual units needing support, not how they support bases. At this point I'm just wondering what the following means so I can GUESS at the rules that pertain as I've had to do for most of this game.

Mot Spt - (3) x147
Avn Spt - (0) x100
Nvl Spt - (0) x500
**Garrison** (0) x20

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

I went to page 182 last paragraph. It only covers individual units needing support, not how they support bases. At this point I'm just wondering what the following means so I can GUESS at the rules that pertain as I've had to do for most of this game.

Mot Spt - (3) x147
Avn Spt - (0) x100
Nvl Spt - (0) x500
**Garrison** (0) x20

Well if you don't like it move on...otherwise enough of the cheeky comments...I refer you to my sig line.


That being said -

Mot Support = Support only it has a greater load cost.

Avn Support = similar to Support but only used for aircraft maintenance...page 214 top...page 249 bottom...page 252 middle...many other places.

Naval Support = has a bunch of different functions which are discussed in the ship rules....base rules...logistics rules etc.

**Garrison** = likely a non-specific device that is classified as static. One of many different techniques used by scenario designers so that the unit cannot move.

------


PS you can open a pdf copy of the rules ... IIRC in the manuals folder of your game folder.

[gunny3013]

I'm clearly beggining to understand why the rules are the way they are. I wanted to know what the numbers meant and you overstated the obvious - AGAIN!

[treespider]

[8|]

Page 188 describe what the numbers mean. Have a nice life.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

I'm clearly beggining to understand why the rules are the way they are. I wanted to know what the numbers meant and you overstated the obvious - AGAIN!

You're probably new here based on your post count. Treespider helped develop the game, so he cares when people criticize it after he's steered them to answers.

That said, it's a VERY complex game, and it takes a lot of time to even become average at playing it.

To add to his answers, "Mot" means motorized support. For now just assume it's support which takes more space on ships to load. Otherwise it's the same as Support.

Throughout the game the Number(Number) format is used. This means that the number outside the parens is present, and the number inside the parens is missing, and needed to bring the thing up to TOE max, or some other max. You'll also see this notation used extensively in the economic management screens. There it means Present in the pile(amount produced per turn.) Takes some getting used to.

If you need acronyms or abbreviaitons explained, just ask. There are a lot of them.

[gunny3013]

Your right of coarse and I should appologise for not being more understanding. [:(] I was exhausted and thought a game would be relaxing. I do wonder now, after having rested well, Why so much vital information was never put in the rules and why it was not entered in a simple easy to understand and referance format like is done in so many other parts of the rule book. ie, why go to the trouble on page 205, to show a picture of the support window and not explain what each of the numbers mean or where to find that information in the rules.

I will say that this is a fun game up until a player needs to start diving into some of the numbers. With only obscure references and complete omissions a person can get frustrated. IMHO, this game is on the verge of greatness but is held back because a lot of the more detailed functions are poorly explained, separated thoughout the rule book or simply never mentioned. Such is the case with Base Support as it is danced all around but never explained in any detail. Without your assistance I would not have placed all the information together as parts are not explained in any portion of the rules and I don't want to buy a game and be forced to go to a forum to understand how to play it, is all I'm saying. [:)]

P.S. Look at the date joined as the "Posts" number has no indication of time just how talkative a person is.

[dr.hal]

As an additional point not cleared up by the above, in relation to aviation support in a base (NOT on a ship that carries aircraft), as noted above there are two types of support, normal land based and after that number a "+" sign and another number indicating seaplane, float plane, float fighter or amphibious plane support. This last number does NOT support regular land based planes IIRC (others will correct if I'm wrong). I'm not sure about amphibious planes (PBY's with wheels!) but I don't think they are supported by ordinary aviation support squads either. And welcome to the best strategy game ever invented Gunny, it will take time but you will get the hang of it. Hal

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

As an additional point not cleared up by the above, in relation to aviation support in a base (NOT on a ship that carries aircraft), as noted above there are two types of AVIATION support occassionally displayed on a base information screen, normal land based and after that number a "+" sign and another number indicating seaplane, float plane, float fighter or amphibious plane support. This last number does NOT support regular land based planes IIRC (others will correct if I'm wrong). I'm not sure about amphibious planes (PBY's with wheels!) but I don't think they are supported by ordinary aviation support squads either. And welcome to the best strategy game ever invented Gunny, it will take time but you will get the hang of it. Hal

Bold words added for clarification.

[dr.hal]

Thanks Treespider.

[treespider]

From re-reading all of this, the OP may be asking HOW support works...the answer is we cannot tell you the HOW.

What we can tell you is -

1. Units have Support Devices. Represented in the Device list as :

Support (###) x ###

The parenthised ### are disabled.

2. When units are in a base all of the Support Devices in the hex amongst the various units are totalled and can be shared amongst the various units in the hex that contains the base.

3. Bases in and of themselves do not have Support devices. The devices are contained in the units.

4. The Support Devices are used in a variety of random checks (which will not be disclosed) for many different functions, such as fatigue recovery or combat effectiveness of a unit.

5. If you have less Support Devices than required your unit MAY NOT perform optimally in whatever is attempting to do.


Support is used by many as an interchangeabled generic term depending on the context in which it is used.

For land based issues Support means Support Devices and Mot. Support Devices.

For aircraft issues Support means Aviation Support Devices.

For naval issues Support means Naval Support Devices.