Making Lemonade: JocMeister (A) vs. SqzMyLemon (J) BabesLite-B

[JocMeister]

Can´t make a good lemonade without crushing some lemons right?! [:D]

I´m currently already involved in a PBEM game vs obvert. This was my first PBEM and if you all remember your first PBEM it tends to be quite messy and riddled with mistakes. I have been thinking about starting a second PBEM for a long time and when Josephs game ended I immediately contacted him. We had previously had some contact over PMs and I have followed his AAR with great interest.

During my game with Erik (obvert) I found some things I´m not to fond of in the vanilla game. Babes seem to adress most if not all of them so I´m really excited to give this a go. We had initial plans to play the full BigBabes version but decided it might be a little too much for us. I have my first child due in about 8 weeks (Yey! [:)]) and going for the Lite version will probabably demand less time.

We will be playing with the stacking limits to adress the "deathstar" syndrome. I´ve only heard good things about so and it will be interesting to see how much it changes the land war!

For thoose not familiar with the Da Babes mod here is a link: DaBigBabes Home

I´m not sure how I will format this AAR yet. It will not be a daily AAR but probably a broader one with weekly updates and occational (daily?) cries for help! [:D]

I strongly recommend anyone to check out Josephs AAR. His AAR against Smeulders is one of the best I have read and I have no doubt this one will be just as good!

Btw, Lemons are not welcome under this post! [:'(]

[Dan Nichols]

Good luck Jocke, I'll be following along your AAR and not reading the other.

[moore4807]

[:)] I am going to read both sides, so I wont be posting - best of luck to you. As the Allies do you have any early thoughts or plans?

[ny59giants]

Which one to follow more closely?? I've corresponded with both players, so I need to decide.

[JocMeister]

Pick me, pick me! [:D]

How could I ever hope to defeat an empire of evil lemons without your aid!? [&o]

Strategic thoughts

I have been looking at the extended map and the first thing that struck me was the that there are now two seperate "exitshutes" for Abadan and Aden. There is also a base situated between them called Masirah. If the Jap player gets his hands on that base togheter with Socotra (Scoodra!?)he can pretty much close off India. So they need to be PROPERLY garrisioned.

Other then that the map looks pretty much the same at a glance. I will probably find more stuff as I start looking more closely.

In my game versus Erik I set up three Major goals to be achieved during the first 13 months. They were: Don´t loose India, don´t loose OZ and Don´t loose China. Two out of three isn´t that bad huh? [;)]

My main strategic goals are the same this time around too. I will add one important goal here for 42. Don´t loose Nomuea, Suva and Pago Pago.

The reasons for this are many. First of all I don´t like loosing territory that wasn´t historically lost. Its a hassle not to have them as it opens up a black hole where naval search is very hard. Its very hard to take back as long as KB is intact and in Sopac. It adds almost two weeks of travel to OZ. I also think it will be quite fun to have some more direct goals to aim for.

I don´t think it will be impossible to achive that goal. I sent way, way too much stuff to India and Oz in my game vs Erik. None of them where anywhere near in any danger at any time. Much of thoose forces can go to Sopac instead. I also sent some 1500AV to Suva to "make sure" i didn´t loose it. Behind level 7 forts with 150 Fighers. Might have been a bit overkill? [:D]

India will get 1-2 Fightergroups to help out the RAF. I will probably send some US AV there but nowhere near as much as last time. I will send US engineers here.

As I write this post I´m starting to realise I have kind of made up my mind to invest heavily in the Sopac area... Going to think this through a bit more carefully if its wise or not. Its probably very unwise since there is nothing important there. But it could probably be alot of fun! [:)]

Time to leave the computer and start prepping for the Olympic semifinal in Handball! Go Sweden! [:)]

Will continue this post later!

[Dan Nichols]

Playing with stacking limits changes China quite a bit. It will make it easier to defend. But, you need to watch your stacking so you do not burn up excess supply.

[JocMeister]

Dan, That sounds good to me! But I´m still not confortable with it! I really dislike China! [:)]

Anyway, to continue my earlier post and try to make some sense at all this is what I´m thinking for overall strategy:

SRA
Delay, delay, delay. I will be as agressive as possible without risking assets for nothing. I will send whatever I can spare in ships but at the moment it looks like Repulse and PoW will be the only major surface assets I will keep around SRA.

Phillipines
Looks like Manilla will be my last stand? SL of 140k vs Bataans 45k. Or is 45k enough for all the troops?

SoPac
I will try to secure and hold on to Noumuea, Suva, and Pago Pago. This will get priority. It may not be wise from a strategical point of view but its supposed to be fun too! [:D]

CentPac
I will leave Midway and PH to fend as best as they can. Canton, Christmas and Palmyra will be reinforced early on. Canton will get priority. I want him to have to make an effort to get it. Obviously alot depends on how fast he goes for it.

NoPac
Kodiak and Achorage will be reinforced first. Not a priority area. If there is something to spare and it looks like there is a chance to keep on to Dutch harbour I might reinforce there. Whatever he grabs up there he will have to reinforce and garrision with troops that would probably be better used somewhere else.

OZ/NZ

One of the OZ divisons will go to Perth to secure the west coast. The East Coast will have a strong US presence. This area has priority and will help secure SoPac.

India
With the exception of one OZ division the rest of the reinforcment arriving at Aden and Capetown will go here. I will send about two US fightergroups and US engineers here. Nothing more. India will have to fend for itself unless Joseph will go "all in" here. I will probably send a US division to CT and have it ready to be bought out if needed.

China
More on that later.

Overall thinking

I´ve read Josephs AAR from the start but can´t remember much on what he did and how early on. I will not re-read it as it would feel like an unfair advantage. If I remember correctly he did some mistakes early on but I can´t count on him doing them again. He will be a formidable opponent since he is playing the allied side in another PBEM. So he will know exactly what I have to play with.

I need to slow him down as much as possible in SRA in order to build up SoPac. His last opponent was extremly careful and did not risk anything so Joseph might have gotten used to doing stuff unopposed. I will conserve what I can until I can gather it up and form a meaningful resistance with it. I will try to target his landings. Java will probably give me the best opportunity...

[JocMeister]

China

I´ve stared at the map for almost an hour this morning but I can´t really come up with something. Stackinglimits will help this time around since Joseph can´t just form a deathstar and clear the hex one by one. But his troops are so much better then mine that it will still be very hard to stop him. I will have to rely on rough and wooded hexes where defensive modifiers will help me just as in the vanilla game.

China is pretty messed up in the vanilla game. I think its too easy for the Jap to exploit the lack of AA and AT capabilities the chinese suffer from. If the Jap player devotes his AF and buy out the "tankette armies" from Manchuria its a pretty sure thing. There are numerous AARs where the allies have lost or are about to loose China. One of the biggest culprits I think is the fantasy like tempo the airforce can keep up due to the non existant AA in the vanilla game. Hopefully this mod will sort it out! [:)]

Since I´m not really sure what to do I will start to fall back to the MLR. Chenchow and Loyang will be abandoned. I see no realistic way to keep on to them. I will withdraw as in my last game but this time I will leave some forces behind to wander the the map trying to cut supply and forcing him to devote AV to chasing them down and destroying them. The "new" Chinese Corps will be sent to Paoshan to await buyout and India. I will send as many AA units from the Indians and British as I can find to China. I can not let China turn in to a "bomb all you want without any risk of losses" as I did my last game. Sending the AVG there is pretty much useless since its too easy to close the level 1 AFs in China and isolate the short legged AVG. I´m hoping the more realistic AA will be enough to atleast slow down the tempo of the bombings. My last game I sent close to 300k supplies to Rangoon and I think most of it made it to China. This was not nearly enough as airial airfield bombings for some reason seem to burn supply faster then combat... [8|] This time I will go for a minimum of 500k and try for 800k. This will require a major effort and take most of the available shipping to achieve. If he goes for Rangoon early I´m pretty much screwed.

I will also try to work out some kind of rotation system to rotate units that are pretty beat up out to rest. This will help conserve units that has gained experience.

Main strategical goals for China during 42.

1. Hang on to Sian and Changsha.
2. Do not under ANY circumstance loose control of the mountains to Burma.

This is the theatre that worries me the most. Its also the least fun one. The land combat in AE is not up to par with the rest of the game. The "hexside ownership" system is just silly and the way movment works is even more silly. I had so many problems in my last game with LCUs resetting their movment for no appearant reason it was a major PITA.

Unfortunatly for me Joseph did well in China in his last PBEM as the Jap. He also is about to loose China (if he havn´t already) in his allied PBEM so again he will know exactly what to do to collapse the Chinese. I have very little hope of hanging on to China when 42 is over. I´m sure he will make a major push here. Most Jap players do theese days as its almost certain win. The positive thing about this is that he may hold off any other major operations (India/OZ) until China is dealt with. If I can delay him long enough to build up my defences elsewhere China may turn into a Pyrrhic victory for him.

I should also add that the land war is by far my weakest side in the game and that may contribute slighly to my diskike for China. I will prepare for a complete loss of China by late 42. But this game I will hold on to the backdoor to Burma. I think this is the most important thing in China for me. We have a HR that states that LCU needs to pay PPs to cross national borders but that this will be open for discussion if China is about to fall. If China falls I need to get Chinese to India to rest, heal and train. That is the plan.

[obvert]

Great to see you guys have already started! I guess my vacation was well timed! This will be fun to watch.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Strategic thoughts

My main strategic goals are the same this time around too. I will add one important goal here for 42. Don´t loose Nomuea, Suva and Pago Pago.

The reasons for this are many. First of all I don´t like loosing territory that wasn´t historically lost. Its a hassle not to have them as it opens up a black hole where naval search is very hard. Its very hard to take back as long as KB is intact and in Sopac. It adds almost two weeks of travel to OZ. I also think it will be quite fun to have some more direct goals to aim for.

As I write this post I´m starting to realise I have kind of made up my mind to invest heavily in the Sopac area... Going to think this through a bit more carefully if its wise or not. Its probably very unwise since there is nothing important there. But it could probably be alot of fun! [:)]

If he wants these, he'll take them. That said, some garrison would be a good idea, as it was too easy to get footholds in our game, especially in the New Caledonia area.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

SRA
Delay, delay, delay. I will be as agressive as possible without risking assets for nothing. I will send whatever I can spare in ships but at the moment it looks like Repulse and PoW will be the only major surface assets I will keep around SRA.

Using multiple SCTFs in combination, hitting in waves during one turn, has been useful for Torsten to slow me in the SRA. He lost a lot of CA/CL but has definitely made me take extra precautions and slow the pace. Hiding the air forces and only jumping when you have a shot also could pay off big. Don't let the fighters get worn down early in Singers or elsewhere. Hord them up and train them to be better, then mass them unexpectedly.

4Es against oil/resources are a good tool as well.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Main strategical goals for China during 42.

1. Hang on to Sian and Changsha.
2. Do not under ANY circumstance loose control of the mountains to Burma.

This is the theatre that worries me the most. Its also the least fun one. The land combat in AE is not up to par with the rest of the game. The "hexside ownership" system is just silly and the way movment works is even more silly. I had so many problems in my last game with LCUs resetting their movment for no appearant reason it was a major PITA.

Get to good territory and stay there on the MLAs you have set. Even if you're low on supply, you will fight better there as your troops build forts and once the IJA masses to kick you out you can shift internally or add in reserves to thwart the effort. The mountains are key, and you will not lose them this game I'm sure! [;)]

I think the AVG can really be useful in China if you only use it from bigger fields with rail connections, and possibly Sian for an occasional surprise. It's very hard to have enough IJAAF 2E bombers early, and if you begin to take 4-5 out here and there, it will limit his ability to upgrade groups as well as giving your pilots kills and experience.

[JocMeister]

Welcome to the good side Erik! [:D]

I agree with you that he will grab what he wants IF he goes fast enough for it. But if I can get 300-500AV in place at Noumuea, Pago Pago and Suva its going to be hard for him to dislodge. I will have level 3-5 forts up pretty fast. I think the trick would be to make is hard enough that he won´t think its worth it!

I will try and replicate what Torsten has been doing in you game! All the RN ships capable of 28 knots and faster will go to the SRA. I might send some US Cruiser here as well. PH was a blessing so I have some to spare! More on that in the next post! [:)]

I did try to have the AVG flying in China but it was so hard. You almost always had all the usable AFs closed. The allied fighters only have a 5 hex radius making it really hard to get to the bombers...

Thanks for dropping in! I hope you will keep feeding me with good advice! [:)]

[JocMeister]

Today when I got home I had the first replay waiting in the inbox! Yey! [:D]

The first turn as the allies are usually not a very pleasant thing but I have never, ever in about 30-50 PH attacks (29-49 of them being against the AI obviously) seen anything like this. I don´t know if Joseph botched the settings or if it was just a weird fluke! ALL my CA/CLs are completely unhurt! All BBs survived the first strike.

So the question is. Will he go for a second strike? I don´t think he will. The Airforce didn´t suffer much either and I have 97 operational fighters! Also this is a Babes game and flak will hurt. I will put every available fighter up tomorrow. All fast ships will sortie out of PH to avoid a possible second strike.

I will not try to connect with the KB. I think the chances to actually connect are slim and I don´t want to get any ships cought mid ocean in daylight. This was a great result for the allies and I don´t want to stretch my luck. [:)]

I suffered more badly at Manilla as can be seen. Hopefully I can save most of the SS. They have show remarkable survivabilty in my other game! [:)]

Very good day for the Allies!

[JocMeister]

This might be a stupid question, but what are the best way to get as much shipping out of Manilla as possible? Go right away on turn 1 and go south? Go west past Miri? Wait for it? Can´t rember what I did the last time but it ended badly with me loosing almost everything. Don´t want to repeat that! [:)]

[ny59giants]

The FIRST TF you make at Manila is one to Minesweep Bataan. [:D] I set it FULL SPEED.

Next, I set up single ship TF, except for my DDs. I send out my small xAKLs and xAKs at Full Speed for Tarakan as the lower your TF number move first. If they are going to be attacked, then I want ships that I can afford to lose. All my TF go to FULL SPEED to escape for the first turn and maybe longer. A handful will head to the southern tip of Luzon to make the trip across the Pacific. Some of them are you largest transports and support ships. I like to give the Japanese players too many ships to cover easily with just a few SC TF and/or CVL/CVEs.

Subs go out last. S-boats to hit the invasion bases along Luzon and the fleets subs spread out to cover Japan, around Babeldoab towards Ambon to get in those shipping lanes, and then 4 to 6 to cover SW of Truk to get any between there and Rabaul. Since you have so many damaged, I would not place any off Japan for now. I devote almost all my Gato Class to cover Japan and leave the older class subs for other duties.

I had Boise end up in a recent game patroling between Tokyo and Truk. She sank a whole transport TF. [&o]

[JocMeister]

Ah, Never knew the TF number mattered! By pure luck I created the Minesweeping TF first! Very happy I don´t have to do it all over! [:D]

I will follow your advice on flooding the area with everything. Hopefully I can get some of it out this time! Atleast I can´t do any worse...Don´t know yet if I will try to get the damaged subs fixed at Manilla or send them to a safer port right away! I have a feeling he will come for another port strike next turn to try and catch the damaged ones.

That Boise gambit sounds interesting. I might actually try that! [8D]

[Dan Nichols]

Jocke, note that some ships will have the same movement listed for full speed and mission speed. I set those to mission so they don't run out of fuel so quick.

[ny59giants]

TF movement has been per the lowest TF number first since back in old WITP days. That is why the 'rule of thumb' at Manila is the first TF is a minesweeper. If you had made a few transport TF and Jocke had placed mines at Bataan, then they would have hit them on the way out before the Minesweeper TF got there. Sad, but true. [;)]

Some of your TF will not be able to get all the way to Tarakan at FULL speed, but I wanted you to get as much as possible away from Manila. Over the next few days, you will have to micro-manage most of those TF and give them various waypoints so you don't have 6 plus TF in a single hex. Some stay at Full speed, while others go back to mission speed. Many of the TF get changed to Balikpapan as home port. If they get there, I try to load fuel and head them to Perth and safety.

I'm partial to AS Canopus as I served on AS-34 version in early 80s as an Electronics Tech in Rota and Charleston. [:)]

[JocMeister]

Thanks for the advice!

I just set up the Manilla escape using you advice. Will see in a few days how it works out

I´m done with India, Phillipines and the dutch. Its starting to get a tad tedious! [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

TF movement has been per the lowest TF number first since back in old WITP days.

Don Bowen answers this in a different thread.

This was part of a post:

Also, there's a rumor that surface combat TF should have smaller TF number than transports TF, so that combat TF is moving first. Dunno if that's true...

Don Bowen answered:

It is NOT.

He worked on the code, so I put a lot of stock in his advice on it.

[JocMeister]

So there is a chance the MSW TF won´t go in first and stuff will go BOOM? [:D]

I expect about 100% losses from Manilla so if anything gets out it will be a nice bonus.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

TF movement has been per the lowest TF number first since back in old WITP days. That is why the 'rule of thumb' at Manila is the first TF is a minesweeper. If you had made a few transport TF and Jocke had placed mines at Bataan, then they would have hit them on the way out before the Minesweeper TF got there. Sad, but true. [;)]

Some of your TF will not be able to get all the way to Tarakan at FULL speed, but I wanted you to get as much as possible away from Manila. Over the next few days, you will have to micro-manage most of those TF and give them various waypoints so you don't have 6 plus TF in a single hex. Some stay at Full speed, while others go back to mission speed. Many of the TF get changed to Balikpapan as home port. If they get there, I try to load fuel and head them to Perth and safety.

I'm partial to AS Canopus as I served on AS-34 version in early 80s as an Electronics Tech in Rota and Charleston. [:)]

I take a similar approach, except I make the first three TFs Minesweepers, starting with the dedicated minesweeper types and then using the DDs. I switch the DDs over to ASW on the turn after they clear the port. I also couple any other craft with ASW capability with the most valuable support ships in TFs of 2-3 ships. After that is it is all single ship TFs that split to follow separate paths after the first turn.

Regardless of what Bowen has to say, they have always and continue to leave port in the order they are created. Don't know if that also equates to TF # (it should), but it is order of creation that matters.