What should a begginer choose?

[RakuPL]

First of all I wanted to say hello to all members and staff here at the Matrix forums! [:)]

As you can see this is my first post here as I'm a beginner at Matrix/Slitherine games (played Panzer Corps and W40K: Armageddon only [;)] ).

I've decided to take next step in my video games hobby with some more serious challenge, so I wanted to ask more experienced players here (in terms of hex-based wargames) to advise what game should I choose to start with:

Commander Europe at War
The Operational Art of War III
Gary Grigsby's War in the East
Gary Grigsby's War in the West
or else?

Thank you very much for patience for a new member

[Ranger33]

Welcome! I've been playing wargames for quite awhile but would still consider myself a beginner compared to other guys here. I have a ton of games from Matrix but have a hard time focusing on just one for a long time so I kind of suck at most of them.

If you are interested in a variety of theaters at different scales, Operational Art of War is a great bang for your buck. It's fairly complicated to play though, so pencil in a few afternoons to get a handle on it.

If you want the new hotness, Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is awesome. More intuitive to learn and better looking. However, it is specific to Cold War gone hot at a sort of grand tactical scale.

The Commander series is solid, a nice gradual step up from Panzer Corps and Warhammer. WWI is newest in this series and a good game. I would also recommend taking a look at the AGEOD games. They play differently from anything else out there, so it's a love it or hate it series for most.

I would hold off on the "monster" games for awhile. They are awesome in theory, but take real dedication to get the most out of them. I know from experience!

[Rodwonder]

A good start is your preferences in history... It seems you lean toward WW2 so Commander is a pretty good start. Decisive Campaigns and any Steel Panthers are really great too. Welcome to a great hobby!

[Rosseau]

Welcom RakuPL. You have come to a good place [;)]

I would strongly encourage you to avoid the Grigsby games. I've been wargaming (but not very well) for 30 years, and I rarely play them due to the complexity and level of commitment to digest a 400 page manual.

TOAW3 is a timeless game that can be mastered with some effort. Also, tons of scenarios for this classic. Graphics-wise, you probably need to be a board wargamer to appreciate its lack of flash. But I love those colorful NATO counters.

An excellent game that is not on your list is Flash Point Red Storm. You can jump right in (and lose) and have a great time doing it. I cannot say the same for many games. The Battle Academy series is probably a bit too simple for you (although multiplayer is quite tense). Flashpoint keeps getting better and better with each patch, and is reasonably priced for what you receive.

Another option would be Advanced Tactics Gold. Again, you can play it and have fun losing and catch up on the rules and the editor later. Graphics are pretty basic, and it is less complex than TOAW3. Also, be sure to avoid the Harpoon games like the plague. Command Modern Air/Naval Operations is what Harpoon should have been years ago. It's a very detailed game you can sort of dive into, but not as easily as FPRS or ATG.

BTW, I only played Panzer Corp multiplayer recently, and it can be one nail biting game. Versus the AI not so good. Just my ramblings, and I'm sure there will be others. Lots of stuff here to buy!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: RakuPL

First of all I wanted to say hello to all members and staff here at the Matrix forums! [:)]

As you can see this is my first post here as I'm a beginner at Matrix/Slitherine games (played Panzer Corps and W40K: Armageddon only [;)] ).

I've decided to take next step in my video games hobby with some more serious challenge, so I wanted to ask more experienced players here (in terms of hex-based wargames) to advise what game should I choose to start with:

Commander Europe at War
The Operational Art of War III
Gary Grigsby's War in the East
Gary Grigsby's War in the West
or else?

Thank you very much for patience for a new member

Warpite1

Welcome to the forum RakuPL

If you are into WWII and hex based games then there is one obvious candidate (subject to some key caveats).

Matrix World In Flames is, quite simply in this writer's opinion, the best war game ever.

There are issues with the computer game at present (and these are being worked through) and the net effect is that solitaire or playing by e-mail (needs to be an opponent you can completely trust) are the only real ways of playing. A limited Net Play is being tested (Barbarossa scenario) but its early days.

To purchase this game you need to take a long term view of its ultimate completion - and it is expensive. That said, it is a richly enjoyable, highly replayable and fun game.

[Rosseau]

With all due respect to one of the most senior and well-respected members on this forum, World in Flames is the last game I would recommend the OP buy. The only good thing about it is it is now $69 and not the $102 I paid. I have not lost hope and plan to return to the game in about a year or two when the lone developer can solve its many issues.

[RakuPL]

ORIGINAL: Ranger33

Welcome! I've been playing wargames for quite awhile but would still consider myself a beginner compared to other guys here. I have a ton of games from Matrix but have a hard time focusing on just one for a long time so I kind of suck at most of them.

If you are interested in a variety of theaters at different scales, Operational Art of War is a great bang for your buck. It's fairly complicated to play though, so pencil in a few afternoons to get a handle on it.

Does TOAWIII support widescreen resolutions? Just noticed C:EatW is strictly 1024x768 only and would prefer larger FOV [;)]

If you want the new hotness, Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is awesome. More intuitive to learn and better looking. However, it is specific to Cold War gone hot at a sort of grand tactical scale.

The Commander series is solid, a nice gradual step up from Panzer Corps and Warhammer. WWI is newest in this series and a good game. I would also recommend taking a look at the AGEOD games. They play differently from anything else out there, so it's a love it or hate it series for most.

Forgot to mention in my first post I'm rather dedicated to WWII [8D]

I would hold off on the "monster" games for awhile. They are awesome in theory, but take real dedication to get the most out of them. I know from experience!

Thank you for your reply, Ranger33! Still looking forward for more answers and suggestions [:)]

EDIT: Thank you guys for your prompt replies, I will go through and post back my views!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

With all due respect to one of the most senior and well-respected members on this forum, World in Flames is the last game I would recommend the OP buy. The only good thing about it is it is now $69 and not the $102 I paid. I have not lost hope and plan to return to the game in about a year or two when the lone developer can solve its many issues.

warspite1

No problem rosseau - each to his own. I did give a number of caveats. To me, $102 with the state its in is worth it. But I can fully understand why others may not think that.

[RakuPL]

Thank you all for your replies. I've been looking into the store section to have some look at the WW2 category and still the most interesting games for me are TOAWIII, War in the East, War in the West, but... TOAWIII looks even more promising due to lower price than two others [;)] Anyway Matrix website states it was released in 2006. Doesn't it suffer any technical hindrance like fixed resolution mentioned for Commander: Europe at War?

Matrix World In Flames is, quite simply in this writer's opinion, the best war game ever.

There are issues with the computer game at present (and these are being worked through) and the net effect is that solitaire or playing by e-mail (needs to be an opponent you can completely trust) are the only real ways of playing. A limited Net Play is being tested (Barbarossa scenario) but its early days.

Thanks warspite1 for your answer. I would really prefer a title where there would be possibility to play against AI [:)]

And what's more I not in fear of long and difficult learning curve. I just want to spend money once and good for a long time [8|]

[zakblood]

any or all of those will give a challenge, and none are bad choices, i'd work from the top down and enjoy them all, one at a time, leaving WITE for last, as it's the hardest and most challenging,or so have i found it to be

[shunwick]

TOAW III works on beautifully on my 1920 x 1080 widescreen monitor. Just make sure that you are all patched up to the latest version.

Best wishes,
Steve

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: RakuPL
Doesn't it suffer any technical hindrance like fixed resolution mentioned for Commander: Europe at War?

The original TOAW was released in the 90s, TOAW III is a re-release of the game with a lot of work done to bring it up to date so to speak. It’s a great game but does have some drawbacks. The main drawback is the generic nature of the title. It tried to do everything and in so doing wasn’t able to focus on specific issues for different eras and theaters of operation, so most scenarios are chalk full of special house rules and work arounds in text file format that you need to read up on offline before you play them.

There were also some engine limitations due to computer memory limitations in the era the game was programmed in, so for instance the most units that can be rebuilt and return to map as reinforcements in a single turn are 9 (a single hexes stacking limit) due to the fact the engine wasn’t capable of allowing more than 1 reinforcement location to be designated, so big east front scenarios that use smaller units scales suffer from issues like that.

This and other issues may have been addressed in the programming to bring it up to date, but I’d expect many of the older issues to still be present.

Jim

[E]

But then again...

What should a begginer choose?

Begginers can't be chooseners!

[Objekt730]

As someone recently in your exact position, I would strongly recommend Decisive Campaigns: Blitzkrieg From Warsaw to Paris. It is an excellent next step up in complexity (HQs, supply lines, etc.) without hitting you with a massive learning curve. Commander: The Great War and Unity of Command are also excellent choices, although both are a little simpler, with less strict "wargamey" conventions.

From there I would go to TOAW and the Campaign Series.

I wouldn't recommend Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm...yet. Wait until you have a little more experience with more traditional IGOUGO games and then give Red Storm a whirl. Its a great game. Stay far away from the Grigsby games for now.

Note that Commander: Europe at War is locked at 1024x768 and cannot be played windowed, so I actually wouldn't recommend that one unless you're ok with that.

[operating]

Never tried CEAW, But I do play CTGW quite a bit in MP with others who had CEAW, so I would not think it would take much of a transition to go CTGW, you might find it more challenging than you might think! The game has come a long way since when it was first released 2 years ago and is soon to get better with the official 1.60 patch arriving any day now. Yeah, I like WW II also, you might be surprised to find that WW II was like WW I in many respects. what I hear from these CEAW players is: they wished that CEAW had the improved game engine of CTGW, if you are into MP, it's a good place to get started...

[budd]

I'm WW2 guy myself,but Flashpoint is the Sh*t[:D]. If your bent on WW2 the Campaigns Series fro Tiller gives you a lot of bang for your buck and Combat Command is worth a look, also the Decisive Campaign series and the Decisive Battle series from SSG. A lot to choose from, your only limited by how much learning curve you want and your available playtime. Welcome to the fold.

[Crimguy]

Even though it's not a hex based game I always recommend Command Ops to newer players.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

The main drawback is the generic nature of the title. It tried to do everything and in so doing wasn’t able to focus on specific issues for different eras and theaters of operation, so most scenarios are chalk full of special house rules and work arounds in text file format that you need to read up on offline before you play them.

TOAW III was designed as an operational level engine to model land campaigns. Some designers have designed strategic and tactical scenarios and/or scenarios that require substantial naval game play. Designers have always pushed the TOAW III engine and have to introduce compromises because of the scenario design. This is not a fault of the TOAW III engine, that it can be done at all (albeit with house rules) is a testament to the quality of the engine.

There were also some engine limitations due to computer memory limitations in the era the game was programmed in, so for instance the most units that can be rebuilt and return to map as reinforcements in a single turn are 9 (a single hexes stacking limit) due to the fact the engine wasn’t capable of allowing more than 1 reinforcement location to be designated, so big east front scenarios that use smaller units scales suffer from issues like that.

The 9 unit stacking limit is a non-issue of the TOAW III engine. If a scenario designer chooses to create a Barbarossa scale map at 2.5km with company size units then yes it becomes a problem. But this is a fault of the scenario design not the engine.

TOAW III allows for multiple reinforcement locations.

... but I’d expect many of the older issues to still be present.

TOAW III certainly has some older issues. The air model is simplistic though functional. And currently, the naval model is all but non-existent (although being worked on for the next patch.)

TOAW III is not perfect but many of the problems complained about are due to poor scenario design rather than a fault with the engine.

Best wishes,
Steve

[Greybriar]

I just wanted to welcome you to the Matrix forums, RakuPL.

Good luck deciding on which game(s) you are going to play next. Have fun!

[wings7]

Welcome Marcin! The games you listed are good...the games that the other members here suggested are equally as good! Whatever you decide will be the right choice! Happy Gaming to you! [:)]

Patrick