Recommended operational (land / sea / air) wargame?

[jupiter999]

Good day, sir / madam.

I have an old age question as per the title:
May I know what's the recommended operational wargame that features all three land / sea / air battles together, in best mechanics, up until now?
I came from TOAW:CW, but TOAW:CW still lacks some sea / air battles, in my opinion...
I wish to find a latest recommendation.[&o]
I read some information regarding War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition.
Any advice on this?

Best Regards.

[jwolf]

I'll venture an opinion for you. I am a rookie WITPAE player, in my first campaign. The game is excellent, very deep and also very intricate. Mastery will take a long time; just mastering the interface will take quite a while. Many details are frustrating for a novice but are more fulfilling for those who know and understand the system better. Some details seem opaque to the novice but in fact become clear after a season of learning. Other details really are opaque by design because the actual war was that way, too. As the supreme commander you give the orders to each land, sea, and air unit ... but these orders are filtered and interpreted by the game engine and the results may or may not be exactly as you intended. Naturally, experienced players are much better at getting the results they want, but it's simply not possible to have 100% tactical control over the entire Pacific theater. Further, weather, terrain, and enemy action can change your plans and movements, often for the worse.

The interface is IMHO very mouse click intensive. To a great extent this is unavoidable in a game of this complexity, but certain things one would naturally like to order en masse are not possible without a lot of individual clicks on each unit.

The whole campaign (actually there are several, with different historical assumptions and settings) is almost overwhelmingly complex for a beginner. Fortunately there are some smaller scenarios, though I personally wish there were more of them.

I highly recommend that you read some of the great AARs in the WITPAE forum. That is the best way to see in advance what is the scope of the game, how the players plan and execute their operations, and the often surprising results when the opponent does not follow the plan. [;)]

[jupiter999]

Thanks for the reply, jwolf, really appreciate that [:)]
So WITPAE is the game I should go, based on my requirement?

[major.pain]

Advanced Tactics Gold.
Awesome game with endless random maps and options.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: jupiter999

Thanks for the reply, jwolf, really appreciate that [:)]
So WITPAE is the game I should go, based on my requirement?

I concur with Jwolf... WITP:AE has got it all if you can deal with the complexity. For a more modern interface, perhaps WiTW with the new Torch upgrade, might work for you. I don't own it but the air combat is pretty detailed, as is the land. Not sure how the naval aspect is handled but I assume it must be modeled in Torch if they are going to handle Africa and Italian campaigns.

I still must express my personal loyalty to WiTP:AE though. I've never regretted buying it for a moment... and it was my very first Matrix game. Still an amateur with it, but I've had so much play value for the price.

[jupiter999]

ORIGINAL: M J R

Advanced Tactics Gold.
Awesome game with endless random maps and options.

Woow, seems nice...
Now got 2 candidates in my list [:D]
Which to choose, which to choose...

[cpdeyoung]

If you want immersion for months, perhaps years, then WITP:AE will fill the bill.

If you want to vary months long WW2 campaigns with quick fun spats then ATG can do both. ATG has an amazing range with a wide portfolio of mods and scenarios. Lots of fun.

Chuck

[Trugrit]

I always recommend War in The Pacific – Admiral’s Edition for anyone who is interested in
The vast scale and nuts and bolts details of mid 20th century modern industrial warfare.
All the elements you asked for are there in magnificent detail and more.

Be advised, WITPAE is a hard-core wargame and it attracts and retains hard-core wargamers.
The question is; are you a casual or hard-core wargamer?

Players of WITPAE know the difference between an AR and an ARD and how they are deployed and why. Knowing how to deploy the right tools and methods to repair a damaged ship doesn’t come up a lot at cocktail parties or in casual wargames. If you don’t think a game that involves a lot of detailed things like repairing and upgrading damaged ships is fun then WITPAE may not be the game for you.

It turns out that I’m a hard-core wargamer as well as a detail obsessed nerd.

Being a detail obsessed nerd is a tremendous advantage in WITPAE, it is not mandatory but be aware that WITPAE is not a casual wargame. You will need to know a lot more about the weapons platforms, How they are deployed and how to keep them in service because in a hard-core game there are a lot more variables to contend with. More similar to the real world where combat survival depends on experience, knowledge and thinking correctly about the detailed limitations of weapons, leadership
and logistics rather than just the luck of a few die rolls.

So, go look in a mirror and be honest with yourself.
Do you see a detail obsessed nerd looking back at you?
If you do then WITPAE could be real easy for you to learn and enjoy for years to come.

Just my two cents.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I always recommend War in The Pacific – Admiral’s Edition for anyone who is interested in
The vast scale and nuts and bolts details of mid 20th century modern industrial warfare.
All the elements you asked for are there in magnificent detail and more.

Be advised, WITPAE is a hard-core wargame and it attracts and retains hard-core wargamers.
The question is; are you a casual or hard-core wargamer?

Players of WITPAE know the difference between an AR and an ARD and how they are deployed and why. Knowing how to deploy the right tools and methods to repair a damaged ship doesn’t come up a lot at cocktail parties or in casual wargames. If you don’t think a game that involves a lot of detailed things like repairing and upgrading damaged ships is fun then WITPAE may not be the game for you.

It turns out that I’m a hard-core wargamer as well as a detail obsessed nerd.

Being a detail obsessed nerd is a tremendous advantage in WITPAE, it is not mandatory but be aware that WITPAE is not a casual wargame. You will need to know a lot more about the weapons platforms, How they are deployed and how to keep them in service because in a hard-core game there are a lot more variables to contend with. More similar to the real world where combat survival depends on experience, knowledge and thinking correctly about the detailed limitations of weapons, leadership
and logistics rather than just the luck of a few die rolls.

So, go look in a mirror and be honest with yourself.
Do you see a detail obsessed nerd looking back at you?
If you do then WITPAE could be real easy for you to learn and enjoy for years to come.

Just my two cents.

Very true! I would submit though that floundering along playing the AI will still teach you more about the War in the Pacific than any book every written... even if your play isn't at all optimal. Of course to PBEM with an expert player will see them clean your clock in no time.

Grey Hunter did a full day by day AAR of WiTP:AE which is available here:

http://lparchive.org/War-in-the-Pacific/

I actually made it through the entire thing and it was fascinating as "alternative history". His posting style is very accessible as he explains the game as the AAR progresses... it doesn't require any knowledge of the game to understand and enjoy his play through. I suggest you read through a few months and you will quickly discover whether War in the Pacific is right for you.

As for ATG... I didn't think it included naval at all and not sure about air. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[cpdeyoung]

ATG does have naval and air, but not at the detailed level of WITP:AE.

The WW2 scenarios, often community written and supported, have some nice strategic naval play, and as one will quickly find out the WW2 seas were no place for vessels without air support. The naval model works well and "feels" right. It is one of the aspects I like the best. I am currently playing the United States in some games. and building up, and wielding my navies is natural and fun. Cargo and troop shipping is available, and amphibious operations are supported. In these games the turns are about one month long, so strategic/operational level is enforced by time scale. A multiplayer game can take months from the late '30s to a decision, but with disciplined play it might only take two or three weeks.

ATG is almost a war-game construction set. There are some very clever scenario designers in the community, and AARs are available for your viewing pleasure.

Chuck

[jupiter999]

Thanks, cpdeyoung, Trugrit, rhondabrwn. Appreciate your comments.
I might want to try WITP:AE, because you said details is best portrayed in this game.
But because I'd long "disconnected" from wargames since TOAW:CW, I wonder where is the best place I should start learning this game...
Also, I'm not playing well in TOAW:CW as well...
Any tips?

By the way, anybody saw this game:
Order of Battle: Pacific
Any comments on this?

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: jupiter999

Thanks, cpdeyoung, Trugrit, rhondabrwn. Appreciate your comments.
I might want to try WITP:AE, because you said details is best portrayed in this game.
But because I'd long "disconnected" from wargames since TOAW:CW, I wonder where is the best place I should start learning this game...
Also, I'm not playing well in TOAW:CW as well...
Any tips?

By the way, anybody saw this game:
Order of Battle: Pacific
Any comments on this?

Do check out the Grey Hunter AAR, at least for six months or so, and then you'll be inspired and much more confident launching into your first WiTP:AE game. The manual will make much more sense then as well. The newby tips in the WiTP:AE forum are also helpful, especially the bits about how to coordinate fighter protection for your bombers. Half the fun is reading about the game

[jupiter999]

rhondabrwn

Yes, I'm studying both manual and the AAR now. Got tons to learn.
By the way, I wonder if there are any tutorial scenario available in the forum...?

[jwolf]

Unfortunately there is no tutorial scenario, but the Coral Sea scenario is a good, short, and fairly simple scenario to jump into. It makes a good game for either side and gets you started on some of the basics without being overwhelmed by a lot of the infrastructure and administration in a larger scenario or the full campaign.

[Trugrit]

There are a few unofficial video tutorials around:
https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

I'll help you any way I can

And by the way:

[jupiter999]

Salute, jwolf & Trugrit.
I'll try the Coral Sea scenario as suggested.
And thanks for the unofficial video tutorials site. I'll check them out.
Lot's of things to learn! [8|]
I hope I'm not too late for the game, and the party [:'(]

[jupiter999]

I tried to read through the WITP:AE forum for latest add-on / updates that's essential for the game up until now, but ended in confusion, since I did not follow along the updates... Please advise [&o]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: jupiter999

I tried to read through the WITP:AE forum for latest add-on / updates that's essential for the game up until now, but ended in confusion, since I did not follow along the updates... Please advise [&o]

warspite1

jupiter999 now that you have decided on the game, the best approach would be to take your questions to the dedicated WITP-AE forum - that is where you will get best advice - most people there are extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: jupiter999

I tried to read through the WITP:AE forum for latest add-on / updates that's essential for the game up until now, but ended in confusion, since I did not follow along the updates... Please advise [&o]

warspite1

jupiter999 now that you have decided on the game, the best approach would be to take your questions to the dedicated WITP-AE forum - that is where you will get best advice - most people there are extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

I concur. Don't worry about the add-on's for now. Patch it to the latest & take it out for a spin. It is not cheap, but it IS the cheapest game per dollar for hour played. Just be sure you are a gronnard for detail and you will find it an awesome game.

[jupiter999]

Thanks for the reply, warspite1, Lecivius.
I'll go to the dedicated WITP-AE forum instead. [:)]