Good looking game but lots to do

[bretg80]

I didn't make the Beta list for this game, but I have a few comments based on what I saw in the first video tutorial.

concerns:

1. The sound effects are old school and remind me of wargames in the 80s. Come'on let's move the genre forward a bit and get some decent sound effects. The bazooka sounds like a rifle firing and the foot soldiers walking sounds like Steel Panthers.

2. Selecting units is very old school, why can't you offset the units and shift-click them on the screen or have a short cut to pick all units in a hex.

3. The combat results window is very generic and not very interesting. I hope there is more work going into this because it is pretty plain and it was hard to tell what happened.

4. Action buttons seem to be all over the place and should be closer to the unit that is using them. This is another area where context sensitive right clicks could be helpful.

likes:

1. LOS tool and firing range tool are nice and the map graphics to go along with them are good.

2. Firing lines help to show where the combat is taking place.

3. Movement is handled very well and I like the fact that the map shows you how many hexes you have left to move if you move incrementally.


It is pretty cool to see a Squad Leader computer based rendition come to life. I hope they continue to improve it and take our feedback to make the game awesome.

[Bulldog1]

Plus, I really would like to see dice rolling across the screen with a transparent CRT. Half the fun is thinking you have a good shot at breaking a unit but never knowing for sure if the dice will cooperate. Plus ASL provided many surprises with sniper rolls, fanatic, etc. I know we are at the beginning but the game needs to create that angst that dice rolls gives a player. Three clicks of mouse to fire to find out enemy is broken left me kind flat. It doesn't have to be a ASL CRT but create your own that reflects what's going on underneath the hood.
I wish you the best of luck.

[Gerry4321]

Agree that this will really help with immersion. As in you know you need a 5 to get a possible result and you wait for the dice to hit the screen ....

[pad152]

As a computer wargamer, I'll never understand how watching dice roll across the screen adds immersion.[8|] Some things are best left under the hood.

[Gerry4321]

Maybe not dice but as many decisions for the player as possible. It seems from my thread that rally attempts for units happen automatically. So the player just sees the results maybe and is a bit removed from the process. I would prefer if only a few attempts could be made to rally and the player had to choose. Anyways looking forward to this. Bought another game recently but have not played much as I am hoping that Tigers will be the one!

[waltero]

ORIGINAL: pad152

As a computer wargamer, I'll never understand how watching dice roll across the screen adds immersion.[8|] Some things are best left under the hood.

Agreed. We don't want dice showing up in the game. Players always becoming immersed with the dice.


Quote:
I know we are at the beginning but the game needs to create that angst that dice rolls gives a player. end quote.

looking for the dice to create a feeling of dread, anxiety, or anguish when you should be getting "that angst" from a enemy sniper, 10+3 leader, HMG, Berserker(expansion), Tank etc.
Allowing dice to enter the game will take away that power/fear from enemy units...then it becomes nothing but a game of dice.
I can run across that open ground- don't worry about that squad firing a HMG directed by a 10+3 leader...my opponent has been rolling crap all day!

[leftydad]

I agree, seeing "dice rolling" ruins the suspension of disbelief. For me, it is the opposite of immersion. Each to his own, but I really like how the game comes across in the video.

[fran52]

I'm not so contrary to the dice roll,could be one possibility to have it like an option.

[Peter Fisla]

Sorry, Tigers on the Hunt is a computer game inspired by ASL board game, so no dice rolls, no game formulas, drm tables or CRT tables exposed. The game is not a board game, I don't want to open up the system because I don't want to get into discussion why I added -/+1 into certain situations. I wan the user to focus on strategy and tactics and not look at the game as one sophisticated spreadsheet data analysis.

[Gerry4321]

I understand what you are saying Peter. But on most wargame forums there are debates about e.g. a StuG being too strong or weak relative to some Soviet tank. Are those discussions entertained if people are claiming that such an such a tank wins way too many fights with such and such a tank. I think it is healthy for a game myself.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: Gerry

I understand what you are saying Peter. But on most wargame forums there are debates about e.g. a StuG being too strong or weak relative to some Soviet tank. Are those discussions entertained if people are claiming that such an such a tank wins way too many fights with such and such a tank. I think it is healthy for a game myself.

Sure, I can understand that...I have been in those discussion so many times. Though at the same time, during WW2 the soldiers from all the armies didn't have time to consult CRT, weapon tables and argue about what the StuG should and should not be able to do in a given situation

[Gerry4321]

I see a Tech Support sub-forum. We must be very close!?

[Peter Fisla]

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.

[Ronhudale]

I agree. Forget the dice. It's a non factor.

[bretg80]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.

Wow - 45 counters in a hex, that is madness [&o]. That explains your rationale for the tree selection tool. What is going to be even more interesting is to see how you keep track of those units and render the fired vs non-fired. Does the counter stack reduce in size as the units fire? Interesting problem to solve.

Kudos to your efforts in this endeavor, those of us gamers will always provide our input on things we like and dislike and we also appreciate your feedback on why you made the design choices you did.

Keep after it, if the game is good you may sell more than 5000 copies

[waltero]

Would it be possible to get a copy 3 weeks before the release date?
I'll start the bidding at $1000[X(]

[waltero]

2 weeks? [:(]

Game manual included.

[fran52]

Sorry, Tigers on the Hunt is a computer game inspired by ASL board game, so no dice rolls, no game formulas, drm tables or CRT tables exposed.

I can agree but is better to have into the manual some explanation about the game mechanics.I was an ASL player and i know ,more or less,the rules but one totally fasting can have problem to understand.
Also the characteristics of an tank is important to know ,to avoid suicidal situation.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: bretg80

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.

Wow - 45 counters in a hex, that is madness [&o]. That explains your rationale for the tree selection tool. What is going to be even more interesting is to see how you keep track of those units and render the fired vs non-fired. Does the counter stack reduce in size as the units fire? Interesting problem to solve.

Kudos to your efforts in this endeavor, those of us gamers will always provide our input on things we like and dislike and we also appreciate your feedback on why you made the design choices you did.

Keep after it, if the game is good you may sell more than 5000 copies

Units that fired, will marked as such in the tree control. In addition, each unit that fired will marked with a graphics marker as well as will be in darkened state - this feature is an option and can be turned on/off. There is also something called a pop up window, when you right click on a hex with units, it graphically show you all the units in the hex.

[zakblood]

ORIGINAL: waltero

2 weeks? [:(]

Game manual included.

you'd need to ask Ian on that one, admin may or may not think it's a good request or offer