So as I am trying to really get into the nuances of good game play, I find myself frustrated with how to use artillery. Some of my issues have included:
* Playing Soviet formations and On Call artillery just sits there and does nothing if on manual mode. Is this WAD, i.e., programmed into the game as far as Soviet doctrine or am I doing it wrong?
* The AI has the frigging best artillery staff and I have the worst. AI artillery strikes always seem to hit my most vital units at just the right moment. If I let my staff handle plotting they invariably either miss or strike some unit 20 hexes behind the point of contact.
* ICM just seem to not be very effective. Is there some keys to making them work better?
* I have never had one of my units set to Counter Battery fire a single salvo at enemy artillery. I am not exaggerating here: through dozens of battles not a single shot. AI controlled Counter Battery fire is working just fine. Agina, am I setting things up wrong to make that work
How do you use Artillery?
Moderator: MOD_Flashpoint
How do you use Artillery?
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
-
CapnDarwin
- Posts: 9515
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Newark, OH
- Contact:
RE: How do you use Artillery?
On Call States the unit is ready for orders. If the FSCC is off, you need to direct them.
The FSCC for both sides gets reports of various contacts and build a target list. Based on artillery type, range, and value and type of target a mission can be called in. There are delays in missions and there are delays in the mission queue. In some cases if a mission hits open ground the target moved before the guns fired. In some cases if the target is under direct spotting, a mission can shift to go after the target.
ICM is a killer. That said, hitting units in the open is much better than hitting ones in high cover. Certain target units, like tanks may be able to ignore the ICM shot based on advanced armor or era. Artillery accuracy goes up if the unit is directly spotted (small dot in the lower left of the counter). Blind shots are just that and yield poorer results.
On map artillery can CB fire at enemy on map. Your own off-map can shoot at on map. Enemy off-map is engaged by the computer via assets outside of your command.
I would strongly suggest getting Beta 11.2 (for the map updates) and then get beta 11.6 and play. There are a number of critical fixes and adjustments that get things working as intended. We are fixing a couple of know 11.6 items, but they are rare. The full up 2.0.11 update will be out in a few weeks.
Hope that helps.
The FSCC for both sides gets reports of various contacts and build a target list. Based on artillery type, range, and value and type of target a mission can be called in. There are delays in missions and there are delays in the mission queue. In some cases if a mission hits open ground the target moved before the guns fired. In some cases if the target is under direct spotting, a mission can shift to go after the target.
ICM is a killer. That said, hitting units in the open is much better than hitting ones in high cover. Certain target units, like tanks may be able to ignore the ICM shot based on advanced armor or era. Artillery accuracy goes up if the unit is directly spotted (small dot in the lower left of the counter). Blind shots are just that and yield poorer results.
On map artillery can CB fire at enemy on map. Your own off-map can shoot at on map. Enemy off-map is engaged by the computer via assets outside of your command.
I would strongly suggest getting Beta 11.2 (for the map updates) and then get beta 11.6 and play. There are a number of critical fixes and adjustments that get things working as intended. We are fixing a couple of know 11.6 items, but they are rare. The full up 2.0.11 update will be out in a few weeks.
Hope that helps.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!
Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
RE: How do you use Artillery?
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
On Call States the unit is ready for orders. If the FSCC is off, you need to direct them.
The FSCC for both sides gets reports of various contacts and build a target list. Based on artillery type, range, and value and type of target a mission can be called in. There are delays in missions and there are delays in the mission queue. In some cases if a mission hits open ground the target moved before the guns fired. In some cases if the target is under direct spotting, a mission can shift to go after the target.
ICM is a killer. That said, hitting units in the open is much better than hitting ones in high cover. Certain target units, like tanks may be able to ignore the ICM shot based on advanced armor or era. Artillery accuracy goes up if the unit is directly spotted (small dot in the lower left of the counter). Blind shots are just that and yield poorer results.
On map artillery can CB fire at enemy on map. Your own off-map can shoot at on map. Enemy off-map is engaged by the computer via assets outside of your command.
I would strongly suggest getting Beta 11.2 (for the map updates) and then get beta 11.6 and play. There are a number of critical fixes and adjustments that get things working as intended. We are fixing a couple of know 11.6 items, but they are rare. The full up 2.0.11 update will be out in a few weeks.
Hope that helps.
AH, so hitting T-80s with ICM is a bad idea. That explains some of my failures. Did not realize that non-FSCC units only fire if ordered. Still don't get the no CB fire issues. Perhaps the scenarios I tried had off map Arty for the opposing player. I guess its time to go with the Beta version
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
-
CapnDarwin
- Posts: 9515
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Newark, OH
- Contact:
RE: How do you use Artillery?
I would still hit T-80s with ICM, just try to get them in the open. One thing to remember about any artillery or air strike, even if it yields no kills, it still knocks down a unit's readiness. That's a good thing.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!
Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
RE: How do you use Artillery?
Still hit T-80s with ICM, but focus on hitting stacks and large, lightly armored units. MRCs regardless of their equipment will melt under a good ICM barrage. Even better, hit an enemy column as it gets stuck on minefields... I learned that the hard way early into my experience with FPRS.
It's important to consider all the effects that artillery has. It lowers readiness, seriously lowers morale, damages a hex's mobility rating, and kills/damages units. Even if you fail to claim any kills with an accurate artillery strike, it still lowers their capacity and ability to fight.
Otherwise, I love my artillery. As a Soviet player, it's usually doing most of my work, from the pre-assault prep to general fire support. Depending on the situation, I'll usually use guessing suppression fires on areas with good visibility of my attack routes and other good defensive positions. The secondary explosions are all I need to tell that a route is guarded (How's that for a game of Battleship?). As the situation becomes more fluid and the enemy is openly visible, I switch to a method I like to call "hex shocking", that is every single artillery unit that is in range targets a single hex where an enemy unit (Or even better, a stack) is located. Depending on how many batteries I have, even a unit in a good position will have lost enough readiness and morale to become combat ineffective while my infantry close in.
Artillery, both NATO and Pact play one of the biggest parts in a scenario's balance, and the scenarios I have created (And plan to create as Southern Storm matures) tend to give the Soviets a lot of guns (And the actual Soviet force had a LOT of guns) to play with, unless the Soviet (Player vs AI) needs to be challenged.
It's important to consider all the effects that artillery has. It lowers readiness, seriously lowers morale, damages a hex's mobility rating, and kills/damages units. Even if you fail to claim any kills with an accurate artillery strike, it still lowers their capacity and ability to fight.
Otherwise, I love my artillery. As a Soviet player, it's usually doing most of my work, from the pre-assault prep to general fire support. Depending on the situation, I'll usually use guessing suppression fires on areas with good visibility of my attack routes and other good defensive positions. The secondary explosions are all I need to tell that a route is guarded (How's that for a game of Battleship?). As the situation becomes more fluid and the enemy is openly visible, I switch to a method I like to call "hex shocking", that is every single artillery unit that is in range targets a single hex where an enemy unit (Or even better, a stack) is located. Depending on how many batteries I have, even a unit in a good position will have lost enough readiness and morale to become combat ineffective while my infantry close in.
Artillery, both NATO and Pact play one of the biggest parts in a scenario's balance, and the scenarios I have created (And plan to create as Southern Storm matures) tend to give the Soviets a lot of guns (And the actual Soviet force had a LOT of guns) to play with, unless the Soviet (Player vs AI) needs to be challenged.
RE: How do you use Artillery?
I must agree that the Soviet artillery is a great killer. NATO artillery seems puny in comparison which is likely a reflection of the number of tubes in each counter (4 vs 6). I have been a little disappointed in the Soviet Rocket artillery but perhaps I have discounted what those monsters are likely doing to the combat effectiveness of the target hex. Also ammunition consumption is way off as they are one shot wonders and should require resupply after each fire mission.
One thing that does annoy me is that Soviet artillery does not behave in a manner consistent with known Warsaw Pact doctrine in FPCS. By that I mean per doctrine it should be centralized in control usually at the Regimental or higher level. Secondly it should be used like you describe as pre-assault mass bombardment vice hitting targets of opportunity. Lastly, outside of Recon units no one below, say a battalion commander, would have either the training or authority to call in artillery strikes. In FPCS it behaves more like NATO doctrine where even company commanders had the training and authority to call for strikes.
Probably darn near impossible to code but a more accurate approach would be to have artillery strikes tied to a regimental FC team or HQ for the PACT side. If those units cannot see the target then only unspotted fire would apply. The exception to this would be that a battalion HQ should be able to call in dedicated battalion mortar assets
Just my $0.02 worth
One thing that does annoy me is that Soviet artillery does not behave in a manner consistent with known Warsaw Pact doctrine in FPCS. By that I mean per doctrine it should be centralized in control usually at the Regimental or higher level. Secondly it should be used like you describe as pre-assault mass bombardment vice hitting targets of opportunity. Lastly, outside of Recon units no one below, say a battalion commander, would have either the training or authority to call in artillery strikes. In FPCS it behaves more like NATO doctrine where even company commanders had the training and authority to call for strikes.
Probably darn near impossible to code but a more accurate approach would be to have artillery strikes tied to a regimental FC team or HQ for the PACT side. If those units cannot see the target then only unspotted fire would apply. The exception to this would be that a battalion HQ should be able to call in dedicated battalion mortar assets
Just my $0.02 worth
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: How do you use Artillery?
NATO artillery is an excellent counter to Soviet artillery - their counter battery missions fire more reliably and their batteries are typically larger; even in plain combat a single battery of M109 can make a world of difference for a defending NATO player. Artillery hurts moving targets much more than dug-in ones if it manages to catch them, and NATO fire control typically does catch them. With NATO in particular, their special fire missions (Smoke, mines, ICM) have much more importance than regular fires, and can turn games around. The AAR section of the forums provide plenty of examples where a FASCAM or ICM mission in the right place put an end to a Soviet advance, or a smoke mission allowed a much smaller NATO unit to lay waste to a larger and unprepared Soviet force.
FPRS puts the player in the brigade/regimental CO's position - they will have the authority to call in what they need. As far as requests for artillery goes, lower-level units are typically passed up the chain of command and requested rather than directly requested by the units. The Lieutenant isn't calling in the strike - the Major is after the captain informed him of the Lieutenant's information. The soviet command chain is slower in this fashion.
FPRS puts the player in the brigade/regimental CO's position - they will have the authority to call in what they need. As far as requests for artillery goes, lower-level units are typically passed up the chain of command and requested rather than directly requested by the units. The Lieutenant isn't calling in the strike - the Major is after the captain informed him of the Lieutenant's information. The soviet command chain is slower in this fashion.
RE: How do you use Artillery?
ORIGINAL: Stimpak
NATO artillery is an excellent counter to Soviet artillery - their counter battery missions fire more reliably and their batteries are typically larger; even in plain combat a single battery of M109 can make a world of difference for a defending NATO player. Artillery hurts moving targets much more than dug-in ones if it manages to catch them, and NATO fire control typically does catch them. With NATO in particular, their special fire missions (Smoke, mines, ICM) have much more importance than regular fires, and can turn games around. The AAR section of the forums provide plenty of examples where a FASCAM or ICM mission in the right place put an end to a Soviet advance, or a smoke mission allowed a much smaller NATO unit to lay waste to a larger and unprepared Soviet force.
FPRS puts the player in the brigade/regimental CO's position - they will have the authority to call in what they need. As far as requests for artillery goes, lower-level units are typically passed up the chain of command and requested rather than directly requested by the units. The Lieutenant isn't calling in the strike - the Major is after the captain informed him of the Lieutenant's information. The soviet command chain is slower in this fashion.
Except of course when Soviet artillery is off board in which case you have to trust in the game engine to help with counter battery fire.
Do not see the delay in Soviet artillery you describe. I have had unspotted NATO units come under fire within minutes of being spotted by Soviet units
I need to experiment more with using smoke to help diffuse the killing power of large Soviet formations. Never really considered that as an option
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: How do you use Artillery?
When you use smoke, make sure the units you're covering are equipped with Thermal Imaging Systems. This allows them to see through the smoke while most Soviet units (except for some of their recon units) cannot. The T-80U is the sole exception however as it is equipped to disrupt detection by FLIR.
If you disagree with the artillery call times, you can always edit them for yourself in the data user file (Back up first!!!) as described in Mod Guide 4:
If you disagree with the artillery call times, you can always edit them for yourself in the data user file (Back up first!!!) as described in Mod Guide 4: