Blitzkrieg - Moscow: Secondary objective just a red herring?

[dumb_user]

The secondary objective in the Moscow scenario is "Capture 2 primary VPs in 15 turns". The objective award is "Securing the intended objectives before the Soviets have the time to mount any counter-attacks will make this task significantly easier".
I reached the secondary objective, but couldn't see any benefit. The Soviets launched the counter-attack and devastated my troops. I didn't have the slightest chance of taking Moscow and was happy to survive.
Does it make any sense to try to reach the secondary objective or is it just a red herring to distract you from Moscow?

[gw15]

the designers just gave you the real life experience of what happened to the Axis. Great game.

[bru888]

I have seen that some secondary objectives are just tasks, without any benefits, that are placed in the game just for interest and difficulty. A Major Victory occurs when ALL primary and secondary objectives are completed and adding another secondary objective will just make that harder to achieve. Scenario designers will often throw in a bonus, though, like an additional unit, more resources, or specialisation points, but not always.

[dumb_user]

Yes, definitely a great game. Can Moscow be taken at all? I am just trying to push through with all my forces, neglecting the secondary target. Don't know if I will manage.

Is there something like a major victory like in Panzer General? Will you get more credits?
The award for this secondary target is very unspecific: "... will make this task significantly easier". You get no bonus or so.

[terminator]

It’s a little complicated, but it looks like the soviet counter-attack starts from the 16th turn or earlier if we hit the Secondary Objective "Capture 2 primary VPs in 15 turns". It would be easier to resist this counterattack if this counter-attack were triggered earlier (?)

[gw15]

I've never tried to go after Moscow once the Russian counter-attack starts. Maybe I should try.

[dumb_user]

I guess it is not intended that the Germans take Moscow. However, you can still win the scenario without taking Moscow. Using the “#igotnukes” cheat you will see the victory message: “Combat attrition blabla have caused the first set back blabla. None the less blabla succesfully stemmed the enemy counter-attacks”.
Around turn 22 there is this message: “The Soviets are throwing everything they have into the defense of Moscow. Facing relentless counter-attacks, we have received new orders to stand and hold our hard-fought gains.” I think reaching this new objective will make you win the scenario, but what exactly is necessary to do it?

[GaretBale]

I doubt it's possible to take Moscow. No matter how fast you complete the task. Even if the date not came yet.

[dumb_user]

Now I see the problem with the unclear message about holding "our hard-fought gains". I am playing the game in German language and there seems (again) to be a mistake in the objectives' German version. In the English version one primary objective changes after that message to "You mustn't lose two VPs". Admittedly, playing it for the second time in German now, also the German version says so. But I am pretty sure that the objective was unchanged when I played it for the first time.

[dumb_user]

I guess it isn't a German-version problem. When I played the scenario for the first time I probably didn't hold any VPs when the message about holding the gains came. In that case the original objective to capture 2 VPs doesn't have to be changed.

[bru888]

It's a very complicated set of triggers but here's the gist: You can win this scenario by taking at least two of the four other primary VP's and then Moscow but it must be done quickly and therefore I believe it to be next to impossible.

When you capture the two primary VP's, fulfilling "Capture and hold 2 Primary VPs," the scenario requires you to keep them for three turns while the mission becomes "Do not lose any Primary VPs." You can still capture Moscow during that time.

After three more turns, however, the "Capture Moscow" objective is turned off, as is "Do not lose any Primary VPs," and the primary mission becomes merely "Do not lose any Secondary VPs." Which you can still achieve by not doing so until the end of the scenario. Thus a scenario victory is achievable even though you lost the primary VP's and never took Moscow.

It's a rather ingenious way of allowing the player to win even though gameplay goes the same way as history. So again, while you can win this scenario by blitzing through to Moscow, it must be in the early turns or not at all. I'm not OOB's best player by far but it was my impression that unless you are playing on a very low level of difficulty, you really are not supposed to win in that fashion.

[dumb_user]

Thanks, bru888.
I never realized the objectives changed between primary and secondary VPs, so I always tried to hold the primary VPs, incurring extreme casualties (if I held them at all).

[FelixCulpa]

I have tried this scenario without much success. I wondered if I did not save enough Core Units from previous play to get even close to fulfilling this scenario's objectives. My German force is pretty thin!

[bru888]

That's the thing with campaign play. It's not just about winning each scenario, is about winning it in such a way as to set you up for the next one.

[FelixCulpa]

Hi Guys,
I made it through to the Moscow scenario and quickly realised my force was not going to cut it. BTW Blitzkreig is my first OOB module.
So figured I had missed something on the way through. So back to Poland!
To cut a long story short, in my first attempt I did not upgrade my '39 units to '40. Since I have been upgrading and protecting my force strength points I have been cutting through the early scenarios like a knife through butter!
The upgraded units are a big performance improvement.
On a minor scale, I have found that upgrading the AA units has been a big plus.
Hopefully this time around I will have a better chance of making a dent in the Moscow scenario.

[gw15]

One tactic to use in any scenario with planes is to set up an AA ambush. Put 2 or 3 AA guns close together and have a recon plane on top of them. The AI will attack the recon plane. On your turn fire against one of their fighters and then use your backup fighters to destroy them. After 3 or 4 turns you wipe out their fighters so then your fighters go against their bombers.