Reserve aircraft

[NiclasCage]

Quick question. In the Full scenario starting on December 8th (Quiet China) the 15th PG/46th PS stationed at Pearl Harbor has a maximum of 25 aircraft, it has 8 serviceable, 8 being maint'd/damaged, and 8 in reserve. The group also has 24 pilots.

The manual light states on page 148 that a maximum of 4 aircraft can be added to an air group's reserve. Also, how come none of these 8 planes are being used when only 8 out of a maximum of 25 are serviceable? There's plenty of supply and aviation support at PH.

[Torplexed]

ORIGINAL: NiclasCage
Also, how come none of these 8 planes are being used when only 8 out of a maximum of 25 are serviceable? There's plenty of supply and aviation support at PH.

Maybe to reflect the previous day's historic event?

[NiclasCage]

Could be. Still doesn't answer why there's apparently double the amount of allowed reserve aircraft in the group.

[Nomad]

It is the way they are set up in the scenario file by the developer.

[LargeSlowTarget]

The 8 planes in reserve have been set in the editor to appear as such in the game - scenario designer decision for unknown reasons.

The editor allows to add up to 255 reserve aircraft.

In the game however the player can add 4 planes max as reserve.

[NiclasCage]

What are the specific rules for reserve planes then? Should they not be in use in this example?

[NiclasCage]

Another question (slightly off topic); 7th BG/88th RS based at Pearl Harbor is a squadron of B-17E Fortresses. Its max size is stated as: US Army (max 8 less dets of 2). What do I make of this?

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: NiclasCage

Another question (slightly off topic); 7th BG/88th RS based at Pearl Harbor is a squadron of B-17E Fortresses. Its max size is stated as: US Army (max 8 less dets of 2). What do I make of this?

There's a fragment. Check San Francisco....GP

[Barb]

15th PG/46th PS stationed at Pearl Harbor has a maximum of 25 aircraft, it has 8 serviceable, 8 being maint'd/damaged, and 8 in reserve.

Try to end the turn and based on the base AV support availability and other events you should see 16+ serviceable and 8- maint'd/damaged at the beginning of the next turn.. Simply those in reserve will be made serviceable to make up any shortcomings in TOE.

Any number of planes at the start of the scenario (or in units arriving) are pure Designers decision based on historical knowledge and research.

7th BG/88th RS based at Pearl Harbor is a squadron of B-17E Fortresses. Its max size is stated as: US Army (max 8 less dets of 2). What do I make of this?

You will probably find a unit named "7th BG/88th RS Det" somewhere around San Francisco with max size 2 in reserve. Once both units are at the same base, they could be joined to create full (7th BG/88th RS with max 8). Actually there were some B-17s that were delayed on CONUS:
The group was in the process of moving to the Philippines when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. Six of the Group's B-17 aircraft left Utah on 5 December for deployment to the Far East. Six of them arrived in Hawaii but landed safely at alternate airfields, avoiding destruction by the attacking Japanese aircraft. The rest of them were ordered to defend California against the Japanese threat, since in the hysteria of the moment the Japanese fleet was expected to show up off the Pacific Coast at any time.

[NiclasCage]

The level of detail in this "game" ....

Thank you guys!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

The 8 planes in reserve have been set in the editor to appear as such in the game - scenario designer decision for unknown reasons.

The editor allows to add up to 255 reserve aircraft.

In the game however the player can add 4 planes max as reserve.

The designer may have been wanting to simulate newly arrived aircraft that should not be ready for action on turn 1.
In the .1124 patch that I played for a long time the reserve aircraft would automatically be moved into the active aircraft status after a turn or two, but in the .1126a patch I now play, the reserve aircraft seem to stay in reserve. If I want to make them active I have to return them to the pools and immediately try and draw them into the unit. That may not be possible if there is a time lag built into their move to the pools.

[geofflambert]

There are situations in game where the reserve number can exceed the 4 you're allowed to have on purpose, for instance when you disband squadrons the engine will sometimes present to you other squadrons that can accept those planes rather than allowing you to send them to the pools, and the accepting squadrons end up with more planes than they're supposed to have. Also, when you recombine a squadron from 3 subs that each have 4 reserve you'll end up with 12 reserve.

[Moltrey]

This makes me curious now. So, I always thought that the "hands off" behavior of the reserve planes in a group/squadron would be just that, reserves to be inserted automatically by WITP:AE into the regular group's A/C when one is a total loss.
Is that not really the intent then?

[geofflambert]

There must be a die roll in there but yes, when the number of active planes (including in maintenance and in repair) is less than the total allotment, a reserve plane should be activated. It sometimes seems to not happen efficiently. Usually you see them become active when other planes are in repair, but not always. One thing that's important to remember is that when you transfer a squadron you can count on the reserve planes accompanying the active planes in the squadron, rather than be left behind with the in maintenance and repair planes awaiting activation. Also with transfers, it makes not one whit of difference whether there are any active crews with the squadron. Presumably the engineers fly them wherever.

I should note that when all the active planes are in maintenance or repair the squadron will not xfr, not even the reserve planes by themselves. But if only one active plane is available to xfr, it will carry the squadron lead and all the reserves will follow with it, and anything left behind will be a fragment.

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Barb

15th PG/46th PS stationed at Pearl Harbor has a maximum of 25 aircraft, it has 8 serviceable, 8 being maint'd/damaged, and 8 in reserve.

Try to end the turn and based on the base AV support availability and other events you should see 16+ serviceable and 8- maint'd/damaged at the beginning of the next turn.. Simply those in reserve will be made serviceable to make up any shortcomings in TOE.

Any number of planes at the start of the scenario (or in units arriving) are pure Designers decision based on historical knowledge and research.

7th BG/88th RS based at Pearl Harbor is a squadron of B-17E Fortresses. Its max size is stated as: US Army (max 8 less dets of 2). What do I make of this?

You will probably find a unit named "7th BG/88th RS Det" somewhere around San Francisco with max size 2 in reserve. Once both units are at the same base, they could be joined to create full (7th BG/88th RS with max 8). Actually there were some B-17s that were delayed on CONUS:
The group was in the process of moving to the Philippines when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. Six of the Group's B-17 aircraft left Utah on 5 December for deployment to the Far East. Six of them arrived in Hawaii but landed safely at alternate airfields, avoiding destruction by the attacking Japanese aircraft. The rest of them were ordered to defend California against the Japanese threat, since in the hysteria of the moment the Japanese fleet was expected to show up off the Pacific Coast at any time.

This was depicted in the movie Tora Tora Tora.... The B-17s coming from stateside to Hawaii on December 7th didn't carry their defensive armament (machine guns). I suspect that this was done to lighten the load for the long haul to Hawaii. They didn't know they would be entering a war!

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

There must be a die roll in there but yes, when the number of active planes (including in maintenance and in repair) is less than the total allotment, a reserve plane should be activated. It sometimes seems to not happen efficiently. Usually you see them become active when other planes are in repair, but not always. One thing that's important to remember is that when you transfer a squadron you can count on the reserve planes accompanying the active planes in the squadron, rather than be left behind with the in maintenance and repair planes awaiting activation. Also with transfers, it makes not one whit of difference whether there are any active crews with the squadron. Presumably the engineers fly them wherever.

I should note that when all the active planes are in maintenance or repair the squadron will not xfr, not even the reserve planes by themselves. But if only one active plane is available to xfr, it will carry the squadron lead and all the reserves will follow with it, and anything left behind will be a fragment.

Another aspect of this is that when you transfer a whole, say, bomb wing from base X to base Y, and you combine all the fragments left behind at X in one group so you only have to shift one fragment a turn afterwards, instead of 6, that group oversizes at Y, including having too many reserves. The code detects this, and you will see a message in your operations report:

"Air groups transferring aircraft at Aparri"

... or something to that effect, and it equalises the numbers.

[RangerJoe]

Once that unit gets the extra aircraft repaired and into its reserves, you can draw them down. The under strength units can get replacements through the supply/replacement routine at their current base. It can speed up the transfer and allow for fewer ops losses if there is only one aircraft actually in the unit when it is being relocated.

You may also see air units increase their reserves while their active strength goes down if there are supply issues. I see that in China.

[geofflambert]

I hate it when a fragment is allowed to get replacements or even automatically takes replacements when the mother unit isn't or can't. If the fragment is stuck on a blown up airfield and your last resort may be disbanding it, and a bunch of planes show up, that really cheeses my knickers.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I hate it when a fragment is allowed to get replacements or even automatically takes replacements when the mother unit isn't or can't. If the fragment is stuck on a blown up airfield and your last resort may be disbanding it, and a bunch of planes show up, that really cheeses my knickers.

Well, at least that explains why you smell like mice ...

[RangerJoe]

Some fragments happen when the unit needs replacements but can't get them where they are at. They might show up in Tokio for the Japanese or at a major base for the Allies.