Stratagem generation rules

[zgrssd]

So, I looked a bit into how exactly Stratagems are generated.

Gathering Card Points:
1. Take the BP invested into the Council task
2. Modify it by the Relation bonus (-50% to +50%) and the skill bonus (+1% for a each point above a 100 roll). But ocassionally there seem to be other modifiers
3. add these are the to the pile of [counciltask]CardPoints

Generating the cards:
1. built a list of cards for each Council Task, calculating a Card Point cost and weight for each card
2. the card costs increase and the weight reduces, the more istances of that specific card you already have stored
3. pick a random card from the list (presumably based on weight)
4. If the stored Card Points >= nessesary card Points, you get that card. I am unsure if the price&weight already worsens here or if each card can simply be in the selection once/turn. If you still got poins left, return to 4. If all you got is a 0, you faill fall through to 6 and auto-fail
5. If you do not have enough points to fully pay for the card, roll a Chance equal to [Cards Cost] / remaing [stored points]
6. If you make the roll, just set the remaining points to 0 and get the card. If you fail the roll the Card Points are kept for next turn and no more cards from this Task can be generated this turn.

Results:
- if you got no instance of a card, the card has both a high weight and a low price - making it much more likely to be drawn, both on chance and cost grounds
- even if you invest way less then any one card costs, you eventually will draw cards. Either a selected card makes the roll or you store enough Card Points to pay it fully
- if you got a lot of instances of any one card, the chance for more of that card to be selected is low. Additionally, even if it is selected the cost will be high meaning higher propability it needs to roll to be drawn - and to fail said roll

[BlueTemplar]

Yeah, that seems to be pretty much it, some extra minor details :

Gathering Card Points :
2. Relation Bonus is based on *previous* turn relation.
2. What "other modifiers" ?

Generating the Cards :
2. I think that I saw some instances of "more cards" => less weight rule not being followed, but I can't seem to stumble on them any more..?
4. Don't know about the weight (probably not because => ), but the price doesn't worsen. For instance this turn I generated 3 "Propose Peace" each for 60 minorDipCardPoints (and not really BPs, unlike the report says, since this is after Director modifiers).
5. *However*, it looks like the price worsens for this step. My first Bureaucratic Push was generated for 30 "BP", while the second for 44% chances for 20 BP. 20/0.44 = 45 !
6. Nice to know !

Results :
1. & 3. Yeah, I've been (ab)using this in my current Democracy + Government game :
It's funny how I can make 300-750 BP's (and then like 40-50 PP's) per round from Bureaucratic Pushes alone while my High Command and all my Bureaucratic Offices are shut down ! (Only ~200 BPs and 40-60 PPs being funneled back to renew the cycle. Hmm, I might need to switch the High Command back on eventually...)

And I was wondering what would be the best card to "farm" for Scrap Points this way ?

[zgrssd]

2. What "other modifiers" ?

I do not know what those other modifiers are. Sometimes I had generated Card Points be higher then BP*Relation should allow.

It is just a warning that there can be oddities that even I do not fully understand.

4. Don't know about the weight (probably not because => ), but the price doesn't worsen. For instance this turn I generated 3 "Propose Peace" each for 60 minorDipCardPoints (and not really BPs, unlike the report says, since this is after Director modifiers).

I actually got the data of increasing prices from my retirement cards. Retirement cards are the kind of cards that inherently keep stacking up.
Currently I have:
0 ZERO Retirement: 30 hrCP, 23333 Weight
2 BRONZE Retirement, 90 HR Card Points, 123 weight
1 SILVER Retirement, 45 HR Card Points, 389 weight
1 GOLEN Retirement, 45 HR Card Points, 222 weight

On a previous turn (when I had 0 Gold cards) the cost were:
30/90/45/30 - the first Gold costing the same as the 1st Zero card
This turn - after 1 Silver Card was generated - I expect the prices to be 30/90/90/45
I am definitely seeing a pattern, at least for those 4.

It is less clear with the recruit ones:
2 Militiary: 120 CP/93w
0 Talent: 100/1000w
0 Senior: 100/1000w
4 Junior: 135/59w
2 Merc: 45/494w

The pattern is a bit less obvious, but I asume the Starting points are very different as well.
The 1st Talent and Senior cost 100CP with a weight of 1000. I guess teh Military and Junionr follow the same price pattern - but not nessesarily weight pattern.
The 5th Junior would cost 135 CP at 59 weight - by far the lowest

Merc seems to be a lot more common and a lot cheaper to roll - but it also costs 6 times the PP of a Recruit Junior so that would be the offset.

And I was wondering what would be the best card to "farm" for Scrap Points this way ?

Well, I can help establish a lower end:
Tax and Tarrif Stratagems both cost 60 CP when having 0 instances (I just scrapped them a while ago).
And IIRC, they convert to 1 Scrap Point each. And most importantly, as there are only 2 options you got a good chance to get one of the two at every turn.

Some of the HR Stratagems might yield more - even a lot - but there is also 14 of them so good luck trying to farm any specific card from that list

[BlueTemplar]

I actually got the data of increasing prices from my retirement cards. Retirement cards are the kind of cards that inherently keep stacking up.

No, like you previously, I'm talking about generating the same card multiple times on the same turn :
(I had fired my Interior Director the previous turn to lower his funding, hence only 50 interiorCardPoints this turn.)

[BlueTemplar]

Some of the HR Stratagems might yield more - even a lot - but there is also 14 of them so good luck trying to farm any specific card from that list

It's more about weight. As you can see, that Bureaucratic Push would already be a better candidate, with a weight of 3333/(3333+6+15+6+3+3+15) = 98.6% ! (And a cost of only 30 "BPs", for a scrap value of 1.)

I'm going to guess that the more stratagems are available in a group, the better the final results, so Major Diplomacy might be the best for that ?

(OTOH I also see a Send Spy for a cost of 10 "BPs", scrap of 1, and a weight of 30 000 / (30 000 + 185) !)
EDIT : Wait, how come I don't have the better spy options despite having a Secret Service ?!?

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

I actually got the data of increasing prices from my retirement cards. Retirement cards are the kind of cards that inherently keep stacking up.

No, like you previously, I'm talking about generating the same card multiple times on the same turn :
(I had fired my Interior Director the previous turn to lower his funding, hence only 50 interiorCardPoints this turn.)

You meant that? Good to know that then.

However the price is not consistent:
Notice how hte 2nd Bureaucratic push had a (listed) chance of 44% with only 20 CP left? That means it cost 45.
30+15, same price increase I noticed on the Retriement cards.

Propose peace menwhile cost 60 BP all 3 times, but could also be paid for full each time.

So the update is not quite happening when it should it seems? I guess I can report that as a bug

It's more about weight. As you can see, that Bureaucratic Push would already be a better candidate, with a weight of 3333/(3333+6+15+6+3+3+15) = 98.6% ! (And a cost of only 30 "BPs", for a scrap value of 1.)

I just saw DasTactic scrap a tax card for 2 scrap points. And the 1st is 60 CP.

It is propable that the Scrap Value is based on the CP cost to generate the card to begin with/they are both based on the same hidden value.

[BlueTemplar]

Yeah, would make sense.

----

However the price is not consistent:
Notice how hte 2nd Bureaucratic push had a (listed) chance of 44% with only 20 CP left? That means it cost 45.
30+15, same price increase I noticed on the Retriement cards.

Propose peace menwhile cost 60 BP all 3 times, but could also be paid for full each time.

So the update is not quite happening when it should it seems? I guess I can report that as a bug

I *had* covered that :

5. *However*, it looks like the price worsens for this step. My first Bureaucratic Push was generated for 30 "BP", while the second for 44% chances for 20 BP. 20/0.44 = 45 !

[BlueTemplar]

I was wondering : do they follow the usual deckbuilding statistics ? It doesn't seem like it, but I'd have to check the math to be sure...