Engine Rebalance Mod

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iancmtaylor
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Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by iancmtaylor »

Obsolete post, check CustomizableModPack post instead.




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Pre-release v1.

First pass in rebalancing Vectoring Engine class and Hybrid Engine component.

Objective- Make Vectoring Engines and Hybrid Engines actually worth taking.

Why?- Ships are currently unable to maneuver sufficiently in close combat scenarios. Most small ship designs have exclusively front facing weapon loadouts but cannot use them effectively at short ranges because they can not turn quickly enough to get on target. Almost all ships end up having the same turn rate, even up till late game. Adding an option for having a ship move a little slower but turn more quickly by trading a main engine for a Vectoring Engine will allow for more player choice.

How- Increase Vectoring Thrust on Vectoring Engines so they increase the turn rate of the ship a noticeable amount.


Obsolete post, check CustomizableModPack post instead.
__________

Additional Issue- The Hybrid Engine component lacks any real purpose in vanilla, other than being a cheaper alternative to the main engine line as far as research is concerned. It is much larger than normal engines and has no advantage at all- since the Vector Thrust number is tuned so low as to be worthless.

Correction- Increased Vector Thrust and added Countermeasure like normal Vectoring Engines.

Additional Gratuitous Modification- Greatly increased the Countermeasure bonus from all Vectoring Engines. Also added to Hybrid Engines at half that rate. Likely to be modified in subsequent versions.

Result- Player should be greatly incentivized to research a balance of normal engines and Vectoring Engines. Player will also be compelled to make the choice to research Hybrid Engine tree. Hybrid Engine tree is now an interesting choice- cheaper overall by a huge margin than researching through the main engine line, yet not as powerful as a main engine. Receives a decent amount of Vectoring Thrust and Countermeasures, but takes up more space. Costs less resources than endgame engine.

__________

Design Doctrine- Researching Vectoring Engines now gives you the ability to design ships that trade straight line speed for the ability to turn more quickly. Opening up many tactical and ship/fleet design options. Escorts with maximum speed from normal engines can now be armed with tractor beams to chase down enemy ships and hold them in place, while frigates can be loaded with powerful short ranged weapons and set to aggressive stance. This will allow them to successfully swarm enemy ships and get out of their weapon firing arcs, while bringing their own weapons to bear. Larger ships will have a chance to be more maneuverable at a cost in speed in order to deal with outflanking enemy ships more easily. Player now is making a conscious choice when NOT taking Vectoring Engines, sacrificing maneuverability for speed.

Future Plans-
Further tweak to vanilla components. Especially to make the new numbers more like in vanilla- less 'perfect'. Using 980 instead of 1000, for instance. Adding new endgame techs. As currently there is literally one choice at endgame for each category. Bonus techs for those who went through the effort of researching the entire Engine tree.

Modding other areas of the tech tree in similar ways.

__________

The file-

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/BFHKi ... ance%20Mod

this replaces dw2/data/ComponentDefinitions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYqXMnr6fb4


Obsolete post, check CustomizableModPack post instead.
Last edited by iancmtaylor on Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
I am /u/SharkMolester, moderator of /r/DistantWorlds and BFHKitteh, admin of https://dw2.fandom.com/wiki/Distant_Worlds_2_Wiki.
stranger46
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by stranger46 »

Looks good! Thank you!
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iancmtaylor
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by iancmtaylor »

Thank you! If you try it you need to start a new game to get the new stats. Let me know what you think.
I am /u/SharkMolester, moderator of /r/DistantWorlds and BFHKitteh, admin of https://dw2.fandom.com/wiki/Distant_Worlds_2_Wiki.
Intaka
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Intaka »

ComponentDefinitions.xml was patched in version 1.0.2.1.

I noticed that your page was edited around then but you don't list which game version your edits are based upon.

Any chance you could add which game version your edits are based upon to your description?

I fully support this idea by the way. Vectoring and Thrust needed differentiation badly and this mod seems a great place to start! Appreciate your efforts to balance them.
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Iunnrais
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Iunnrais »

I tried comparing the vanilla 1.0.2.2 file to the modded one in notepad++, but I guess the file is too big or the changes are too many for the compare plugin to work. Just eyeballing it, it seems the vanilla file changed fairly significantly from when this mod was made... can anyone else get a diff working so we can see what the pertinent changes were in this? I'd like to get this mod updated, because the concept is pretty good!
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frankycl
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by frankycl »

Iunnrais wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:43 am (...) can anyone else get a diff working so we can see what the pertinent changes were in this? I'd like to get this mod updated, because the concept is pretty good!
Well that shouldn't be any difficult, I think - just open the patched version in your browser, too. ;) (since the github-link opens the mod-file in the browser, too, it shouldn't be very difficult to see the differences when you have the same zoom-factor in both windows and e.g. browse the file with page-up/-down :) )

EDIT: You could also try KDiff (http://kdiff3.sourceforge.net/) if you have problems with Notepad++ (I never had problems with it, even with VERY large files) - you would just need to copy all the xml-content into an empty text-file (in each case). ;)
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iancmtaylor
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by iancmtaylor »

Yes, I was playing a game last night and I noticed that there had been changes made to the default stats. I would be interested to see what the changes were in total, all that i noticed for sure was an increase in countermeasures from starting at 3 to starting at 5.

I tried to get the auto design to use vector engines last night again, but it seems that there is no support for vectoring engines in the design logic at all.

Even changing the max size of an engine bay down to ten, the autodesign still added a full sized engine in that slot and allowed saving it.

This would mean that a player couldn't manually place a full size engine in a vectoring sized slot, but the autobuild function could.

I tried adding a line in the DesignTemplates.xml but that prevented the game from loading.

Another possibility I just thought of is making them general components and seeing if that would work...
I am /u/SharkMolester, moderator of /r/DistantWorlds and BFHKitteh, admin of https://dw2.fandom.com/wiki/Distant_Worlds_2_Wiki.
Intaka
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Intaka »

I tried out the set of changes below. It seemed to be a good balance. I really hope you figure out a way for the AI to use 1 thrust engine per ship. It seems like there's no point in there BEING thrust engines if they are never used! Maybe we can get this onto the "to do" list for the game once it's stable.


ComponentDefinitions.xml changes:

Summary of changes: doubled thrust values for all types of thrust engines, increase countermeasures value by 50% rounded down

ver 1.0.2.6 last updated 2022Mar26

Note that Engines and Hybrid Engines do not have Countermeasures in the base game
Note that Fighters/Bombers can ONLY equip engines in the base game

Format: ship thrust value & countermeasures %

Tier 0
Starship Maneuvering (Directional Thruster) 90 & 5%

<EngineVectoringThrust>90</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 180
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.05</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .07
Tier 1
Enhanced Maneuvering (Thrust Vector) 100 & 5

<EngineVectoringThrust>100</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 200
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.05</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .07
Tier 2
Efficient Maneuvering (Single Vector) 115 & 5

<EngineVectoringThrust>115</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 230
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.05</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .07

Increased Maneuverability (Multi Vector) 125 & 5

<EngineVectoringThrust>125</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 250
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.05</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .07

Swift Acceleration [Mort Only] (Swift Vector) 150 & 6

<EngineVectoringThrust>150</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 300
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.06</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .09
Tier 3
Coordinated Maneuvering (Single Vector v2) 132 & 6

<EngineVectoringThrust>132</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 264
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.06</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .09

Advanced Maneuvering (Thrust Vector v2) 120 & 5

<EngineVectoringThrust>120</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 240
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.05</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .07

High Speed Maneuvering (Multi Vector v2) 156 & 6

<EngineVectoringThrust>156</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 312
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.06</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .09
Tier 4
Immediate Acceleration [Mort Only] (Swift Vector v2) 225 & 7

<EngineVectoringThrust>225</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 450
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.07</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .10
Tier 5
Synchronized Vectors (Single Vector v3) 152 & 7

<EngineVectoringThrust>152</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 304
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.07</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .10

Superior Maneuvering (Multi Vector v3) 195 & 7

<EngineVectoringThrust>195</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 390
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.07</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .10
Tier 6
Immediate Maneuvering (Omni Vector) 244 & 8

<EngineVectoringThrust>244</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 488
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.08</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .12
Tier 7
Instant Maneuvering (Omni Vector v2) 305 & 8

<EngineVectoringThrust>305</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 610
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.08</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .12

Instant Acceleration [Mort Only] (Swift Vector v3) 394 & 10

<EngineVectoringThrust>394</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 788
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.10</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .15
Tier 8
Inertia Cancellation (Omni Vector v3) 381 & 10

<EngineVectoringThrust>381</EngineVectoringThrust> CHANGED TO 762
<CountermeasuresBonus>0.10</CountermeasuresBonus> CHANGED TO .15
Intaka
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Intaka »

From an AI ship design perspective, seems like
"if ship has 1 engine slot, add one engine"
"if ship has 2 engine slots, add one engine, one thrust component"
"if ship has >2 engine slots, add one engine, one thrust component, do (other necessary things), return here if space for more engines.

Of course, that's probably all hard coded stuff for now. The AI ship building algorithm. I'd love to be able to tinker with that though! It'd be even better if the AI ship design algorithm was per race as well. So each set of designs could take into account race specific tactics.
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frankycl
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by frankycl »

Intaka wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:11 am (...) It'd be even better if the AI ship design algorithm was per race as well. So each set of designs could take into account race specific tactics.
Yes - I would agree totally with you (for modding or future updates) ! :mrgreen:
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Iunnrais
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Iunnrais »

Here's a modloader compatible version of the changes listed above by Intaka. If you have modloader and the modpack, you can just unzip this file into the "Pack" folder under the modpack.

(I'd upload it unzipped, but the forum doesn't allow unzipped uploads)
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iancmtaylor
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by iancmtaylor »

Iunnrais wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:38 am Here's a modloader compatible version of the changes listed above by Intaka. If you have modloader and the modpack, you can just unzip this file into the "Pack" folder under the modpack.

(I'd upload it unzipped, but the forum doesn't allow unzipped uploads)
There's a file for this in the CustomizableModPack, but I should edit this main post to say that.

BTW, you can use the forum post thing to format as code- at the top of the editor theres Bold, Italics, Underline, Quote, then Code.

It keeps the formatting and collapses it.
I am /u/SharkMolester, moderator of /r/DistantWorlds and BFHKitteh, admin of https://dw2.fandom.com/wiki/Distant_Worlds_2_Wiki.
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Iunnrais
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Iunnrais »

Ah! I hadn't noticed you updated the modpack! Hehe.

It was good practice for me to work with the yml format anyway.
Intaka
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Re: Engine Rebalance Mod

Post by Intaka »

TY @iunnrais for doing a yml for my changes! My changes were slightly different than iancmtaylor's, but now I have both to test and modify.
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