German manpower

[ncc1701e]

Is it reduced at a given time? I am around end of 1943 and I still have a wall of German troops in Russia, well dig-in and very hard to crack.

[generalfdog]

As far as i know it's always 32 unless you lose manpower sites, the overall amount is reduced by killing LOTS of Germans.

[AlvaroSousa]

You get the same manpower. How much of the reserve is used is where you look.

When it gets below 50%, if I remember, your default experience starts dropping on new troops and replacements.

Effectively the Germans late war should be expending a tremendous amount of manpower lowering their default experience.

[ncc1701e]

I will wait for the new patch to restart a game and retry. But, my feeling is that Barbarossa is a health walk for Germans. They are not losing enough steps during the invasion in 1941. As such, their manpower is a little too high later in the game.

On the other hand, Russian manpower shortage in 1944 is well simulated.

[aoffen]

In our game, my manpower is still 68%. Could actually make even more infantry. It does seem a lot.

[AlvaroSousa]

Wait till 1944. I played enough games where German manpower gets pounded late war. This isn't history so Germany won't lose 500,000 at Stalingrad encirclement, 80,000 in Tunisia, 200,000 in the silly Kursk offensive, 120,000 men in the Ardennes offensive, or have 200,000 guarding Norway. They have hindsight.

They allies can afford in 1944 to attrition the Germans. Allies have to play aggressively. A passive Allies will allow the Germans to keep building.

[ncc1701e]

Wait till 1944. I played enough games where German manpower gets pounded late war. This isn't history so Germany won't lose 500,000 at Stalingrad encirclement, 80,000 in Tunisia, 200,000 in the silly Kursk offensive, 120,000 men in the Ardennes offensive, or have 200,000 guarding Norway. They have hindsight.

You are not mentioning Barbarossa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

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Losses.JPG (67.19 KiB) Viewed 1211 times

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186,452 killed, this is translating in around 90 steps losses in German manpower during Barbarossa if my count is correct. Not sure we are at these levels. But yes, this isn't history.

They allies can afford in 1944 to attrition the Germans. Allies have to play aggressively. A passive Allies will allow the Germans to keep building.

Absolutely.

[stjeand]

ncc you are correct...it would be rare for the Germans to lose 90 steps...not impossible...but rare.

I am pretty sure in France Germany has higher losses...I think they lost 45 or so steps there...49000 dead, 18000 missing, is 4.5 divisions.
But I would have to play around with it to be sure.

But I bet the UK take fewer losses...

Now switching to Russia I suspect the German army is bigger than in actual 1941...which changes things...plus as Al said they do not do so attacks that do not make sense as the Germans did actually.

This is why it is so hard to balance.

[ncc1701e]

Yes you are right. German army is bigger than historically. They can cover all the frontline with infantry large corps. No need to split corps into small corps or divisions to protect flanks. No need to call in the Axis minors like Romania or Italy to cover parts of the frontline. And, on the other hand, Russian army is smaller than historically.

I really wonder what the next patch will do since France will be easier in theory for Germany. So Barbarossa will be even easier than before?

[Nirosi]

Maybe to scenario been tested with extra Soviet units at start is the answer?

[ncc1701e]

Maybe to scenario been tested with extra Soviet units at start is the answer?

Which one? The Europe 1939 Red Titan mod? I stopped working on it because this bug prevents me from setting the correct arrival dates for the USSR armies.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=377821

[AlvaroSousa]

Casualties are also soldiers injured to the point they can't fight anymore. I know I ran the calculations for casualty vs kill ratio. I think it was 4 to 1 and which of those men return to the front in X time. That is how I worked out manpower initially.

[ncc1701e]

Casualties are also soldiers injured to the point they can't fight anymore. I know I ran the calculations for casualty vs kill ratio. I think it was 4 to 1 and which of those men return to the front in X time. That is how I worked out manpower initially.

And you are perfectly right to do this. In the above site on Barbarossa:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

If you are clicking on c at the end of the sentence "655,179 wounded in action", it says:

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German losses.JPG (71.57 KiB) Viewed 1134 times

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So, during Barbarossa, German did permanently lost 186,452 killed and 655,179 wounded.

[Nirosi]

Maybe to scenario been tested with extra Soviet units at start is the answer?

Which one? The Europe 1939 Red Titan mod? I stopped working on it because this bug prevents me from setting the correct arrival dates for the USSR armies.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=377821

O well...

[generalfdog]

Sure but I don't know if that would directly corelate in the game, first off it's hard to say how many of those were front line unit losses, and Soviet, German strength isn't quit what it was for varying reasons. But the bottom line is USSR losses were 5 times that of Germany, I think most of my games early Barbarossa is about 3 times but then again USSR doesn't quit have the never ending units that they did historically, but in the end it plays well, most of my games end up pretty historical or plausible and if the USSR and allies push hard by 44 Germany has manpower issues, right?

[AlvaroSousa]

We are playing with hindsight. Russians aren't going to let 9 corps be surrounded at Kiev. Axis aren't going to lose 200,000 soldiers in Tunisia, etc, etc, etc.

We have to assume all players understand history and I have to adjust for it.

If we gave historical forces to everyone the Axis would be crushed by 1942 with a competent Soviet player.

[ncc1701e]

We are playing with hindsight. Russians aren't going to let 9 corps be surrounded at Kiev. Axis aren't going to lose 200,000 soldiers in Tunisia, etc, etc, etc.

We have to assume all players understand history and I have to adjust for it.

If we gave historical forces to everyone the Axis would be crushed by 1942 with a competent Soviet player.

Against a competent Axis player, this is where I am not sure. Soviet armies are coming at 30% experience against Axis corps at 70% experience. Few more Soviet armies won't destroy Axis in 1942 imo. Against AI, yes, for sure.

[ncc1701e]

In our game, my manpower is still 68%. Could actually make even more infantry. It does seem a lot.

In our game. January 28, 1944, Russian manpower is at 56%. What about the Germans now with all my attacks?