Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Flashpoint Campaigns Southern Storm is a grand tactical wargame set at the height of the Cold War, with the action centered on the year 1989.

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roventight
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Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by roventight »

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9&t=391014
This is a duplicate bug report, but the first time this bug was reported that I know of was last December, in the post linked above, and the BETA patch still hasn't fixed it to this day.
Phenomenon: Inactive units are not attacked, and when both combatants remain stationary the firefight will suddenly end within a few turns.
How to generate this bug:
I could repoduce it in one of two ways, the first being the easiest, commanding my units to assault into the enemy's hex and the firefight will end within a few turns - as long as neither side is incapacitated or wiped out, they will no longer engage.
For the second, create a copy of any scenario, place all units in the scenario into a column, set SOP to no relocate and ignore losses, and the battle will also end in a few turns.

Two Real Cases
Real case#1 : When my defending units dig in in a position at the north in the Panzer Forward scenario, the Warsaw Pact units commanded by the AI approach the VP below from the south, and my units fire on them as they move. However, when the AI seized the VP they stopped moving and my unit stopped attacking them, the dashboard showed that my unit had all the parameters to allow it to fire on the enemy.
Real case#2:the enemy spotted in the same stack did not engage my unit for 3 whole stacks
When I commanded the Warsaw Pact and had all the units carry out the order to assault, they stopped fighting within a few turns after they had assaulted into the enemy's hex.
I know these infantry ran out of anti-tank ammo but what about their rifles? Have they turned into twigs? Not to mention the Soviet units I used for the assault, and besides what about the other two stacks next to them?
Image

AND Stop asking me if they have LOS! This was the explanation for the first report of this bug, which was then left until now... :roll:
The devs told me that LOS is not the same as LOF and that it is not the same as a weapon having the ability to fire at the enemy, and in some cases I totally agree. However, Jesus Christ, are we playing a game setting in American Civil War era?
Would a 16" rifle cartridge have an effective range of less than 500m?
Isn't a 125mm 2A46 cannon having LOS within 500m the same as having LOF?
So I'd like to know what else I can use to describe this West German mechanized infantry and East German T72M1 in my screenshot as being able to spot each other but not engage in combat, other than a bug?
Attachments
bug.zip
Case 2
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Comcikda
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by Comcikda »

Same issue. Please also check my saved games.
demo.zip
demo
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byzantine1990
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by byzantine1990 »

Ammo shows zero in your screenshot.
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CapnDarwin
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by CapnDarwin »

Folks, we are actively looking into these issues right now. Give us a few weeks to look at the saves, look at the code, and see if we can determine what is a bug, what is bad info presentation, or insufficient documentation to explain what is going on. My best guess is it is a mix of all three given the complexity of the code.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
Comcikda
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by Comcikda »

byzantine1990 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:44 pm Ammo shows zero in your screenshot.
The key ammo here stands for AT ammunition, and the rifle squad was far from running out of ammunition, so they should have engaged the enemy infantry in the hex, but they didn't.
WABAC
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by WABAC »

I have seen battlefield truces a few times. I have never worried about them because both units were generally pretty well fought out by the time they happened.

The AI loves to hide a small unit in a victory hex. They are a good target for mortars. If you're the Pact you frequently can assign artillery.

OTOH, I have often cursed my subordinates for wasting good ammunition on an infantry squad and three AT teams. It has not occurred to me to pile up multiple units on a handful of guys that will have little influence on the course of the game.

And the other other hand, why would the guys in in the squad, and teams, want to reveal their position when they are now tying down four units while trying to stay alive? Sure. They could shoot. But is that the smartest thing for them to be doing?

What is interesting to me in the graphic is that the German unit only seems to see the four units on top of him, but not the units adjacent to him. That seems appropriate to me. They have enough trouble without looking for more. And in game terms, they aren't providing intel on other units in the vicinity.

Edited to add . . . to the extent that there is a "bug" here, I think it just has to do with the AI remembering that there was a unit there, but hasn't switched over to not seeing the unit since it killed their vehicles, and their infantry stopped firing.

Other than that, I don't expect a shot-up unit with a morale of 54% and a readiness of 59% to keep firing away. And I would expect a lot of dice rolls to track down twenty guys that don't want to be found.
roventight
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by roventight »

It's good to see that the bug I reported last time have been fixed in 2.1.1.6967 BETA update - at least partially.
Please check again the stack in this save at 3512, the units in this stack at stationary are still not engaged. I'm pretty sure the units in this stack all have a good view of the enemy and the T72 in the stack even tries to call in artillery.Image
Comcikda
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by Comcikda »

CapnDarwin wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:18 pm Folks, we are actively looking into these issues right now. Give us a few weeks to look at the saves, look at the code, and see if we can determine what is a bug, what is bad info presentation, or insufficient documentation to explain what is going on. My best guess is it is a mix of all three given the complexity of the code.
Please check again my archive, which are from two different games. This issue is still not fully fixed on the latest official update.
2_bugs.zip
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CapnDarwin
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Re: Units in stationary position stop engaging each other #2

Post by CapnDarwin »

That is correct. While some fixes and tweaking have been done to improve it, Jeff is currently reviewing the entire ground-to-ground engagement code and will make some changes in that complex section of the code over the next few weeks. We are also looking into the morale drop issue for some fixes there as well.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
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