Vichy France holds out to the end of the war,

[Lascar]

Just finished a game as the Allies with the war continuing to the end of July 1945. Most of eastern Germany is overrun and Berlin has fallen. There are Vichy French fighting in the east to the bitter end to defend the Reich. Even though France is liberated, except that Vichy still holds Lyon. This is to say the least very bizarre and not historically plausible. Historically, the Vichy government collapsed as soon as the Germans entered Vichy. The former Vichy forces in North Africa after a brief resistance to the Allied invasion soon joined the Allied forces in North Africa this never happens in the game.

[stjeand]

It would depend upon what happened to Vichy.

Sometimes the Allies declare war on them and they will fight until they surrender just like any other country.

Did the Allies declare war on Vichy?

[AlvaroSousa]

Yea if you DoW on Vichy and not conquer them..... well they stay in. I forgot if this was purposeful due to an explotive loop in the game.

[Lascar]

The Allies invaded Vichy France and then it became a German ally. The Allied invasion in southern France was contained and this allowed the Vichy forces to be built up to several corp size units which were then deployed by the Germans far and afield even to the eastern front and remaining on the map after Berlin had fallen.

Historically, as soon as the Vichy forces in North Africa capitulated Germany removed the Vichy government in France.
With the current rules Germany doesn't have to remove the Vichy government in France and if the Allies do invade southern France, Vichy is now an ally and they can rail in German units quickly before the Allies can advance out of their bridgehead.

A more historical rule that would avert this implausible outcome would have the Vichy government being removed after French resistance in North Africa collapses so that the Germans have to occupy Vichy France as hostile territory instead as an allied territory. Also, some of the Vichy North African units should become Free French units that would eventually fight in Tunisia, Italy and in the Invasion of southern France. Rather than having them remain Vichy units fighting for the Reich until the end of the war,

[stjeand]

Oddly I have never had this happen.

When you declare war on Vichy Africa is has no effect on the mainland. They can't build or do anything.

NOW if you DOW the Mainland you DOW both mainland and Africa and they can start building units.
That messes things up.

Did you perhaps do that?

the game used to work where when Vichy Africa fell Germany took control of Vichy.

I see in the code once Vichy NA surrenders...Germany takes over Vichy and all units are removed.

//Germany collapses Vichy France when allies take Algiers and the USA is in the war
$ChangeTerritory
if_Date=1/1/1942
if_Country=3
if_Alliance=Allies
if_Plan=1
xyControl=142,23,Allies
xyControl=143,46,Neutral
lifespan=tillTrigger
actionCountry=54
targetCountry=6
AIOnlyEvent=Axis
surrender_FleetJoin=100
xyArea=allHexes
changeBorders
addReportTo=All
text=Germany occupies mainland Vichy France in response to the Allies occupying North Africa.
$End

[Lascar]

I had declared war on Vichy N.A, much earlier and Vichy France remained neutral until I declared war on Vichy France when I invaded Vichy France.
At this point it became a full operational ally of Germany.

The problem is, that with the current Vichy rules instead of the French forces growing in number after the Allies invade Vichy N.A. there is no growing number such forces and instead the opposite happens with a growing Vichy French army fighting alongside Germany to the end of the war. Unlike the actual war with the 1st French army playing a significant role in the final defeat of Germany,

[stjeand]

I had declared war on Vichy N.A, much earlier and Vichy France remained neutral until I declared war on Vichy France when I invaded Vichy France.
At this point it became a full operational ally of Germany.

The problem is, that with the current Vichy rules instead of the French forces growing in number after the Allies invade Vichy N.A. there is no growing number such forces and instead the opposite happens with a growing Vichy French army fighting alongside Germany to the end of the war. Unlike the actual war with the 1st French army playing a significant role in the final defeat of Germany,

When you capture Algeria they are supposed to surrender to Germany not stay neutral.

That is what the event I put in shows

[Lascar]

Which version is the Vichy surrender code from? I am using .19.

[stjeand]

19...

I would have to test it...Probably can quickly with 1942 scenario

[stjeand]

Not sure how I missed it but the event is AI only...

So Vichy does not collapse to the Axis.

I could swear it used to....