Frustrated With Early Game Machines for Farms/Recycling

[Trifler]

I like the islands in Oceania, but the machine requirements in the early game for agriculture and recycling have really dampened all of my enjoyment.

I get that some people wanted the game to be harder, and I get that Vic increased the number of machines produced by Heavy Factories, but that doesn't change the fact that now you can't produce food if you don't have machines, and you can't produce machines if you don't have recycling centers. The mines also take machines now, so if you happen to find a rare metal deposit early on, you still can't use it to make machines. The trading houses often don't sell any machines at the start either, and on island maps, on some games you can start without contact with any MTH at all.

Agriculture already cost a ton in labor and wages, so it was already a pain. In the mid to late game I would often buy private farms and tear them down to free up workers I needed, and I invested in hydroponics.

Then there's the realism aspect. These are farms with ten thousand workers and up. These are clearly farming by hand, not with modern tractors, much less sci-fi farming. I would also expect to see a difference in the machines required for open air farming vs. dome farming.

So this has really dampened my fun of the game. So much so that I may stop playing if this isn't changed. It's just incredibly frustrating in the early game. It's not like "I only have X machines and I have to carefully decide how to spend them" (Play a game where you don't start with access to any trade houses. Or trade houses don't sell any machines). No. It's "I need machines to feed my people and I can't get any."

Here's my idea for a compromise:
- We should start the game with 2 machines in the inventory.
- The first two levels of agriculture shouldn't cost any machines. Agriculture III and up should cost 0.5 machines per turn, so it pulls 1 machine the first turn, none the next, etc. until finished. Constructive suggestions for varying open air and dome farms welcome.
- Recycling I should cost 0.5 machines per turn (so 1 total) and then 1 machine per turn for each level above that.
- Perhaps some fine tuning after play-testing with those changes.

[Don_Kiyote]

Hello. I cant quite tell, if you're aware that machines can be built in the 'Workshop' dialog. They can usually be bought through the regular 'Trade' dialog too. They are an early bottleneck, but they shouldn't be a brick wall.

Enjoy.

[Trifler]

Hello. I cant quite tell, if you're aware that machines can be built in the 'Workshop' dialog. They can usually be bought through the regular 'Trade' dialog too. They are an early bottleneck, but they shouldn't be a brick wall.

Enjoy.

I'm aware, and I use it when I can, but at the start of the game you don't have enough rare metals to use it, and you can't build a recycling center to get some.

You can get starts where you have no access to trade, or if you have access, they may not have any machines for sale.