Experience

[canuckgamer]

One of the biggest advantages and strengths of the Germans is their experience levels. Opening up the 1942 scenario I see that most of their panzer units are between 70% and 80%. The Finns are as high as the Germans Meanwhile the better Russian units are around 40%. In the 1944 scenario the Allied and Russian units still have a lower experience level than German panzers.
I think this is one of the main reasons why the 1939 small fleet historical winter still favours the Germans. Historically as the war went on and the Germans suffered heavy losses their replacements were of lower quality. This doesn't seem to be reflected in the game. This should somehow be represented in the game.
This was even more of an issue for the Japanese because the pilots they started the war with were very experienced and well trained but they were never able to replace the veterans as their pilot losses piled up. It hurt them more to lose a veteran pilot as opposed to a plane.
If this is not changed for War Plan I think it is something that should be considered for War Plan 2.

[Shellshock]

This was even more of an issue for the Japanese because the pilots they started the war with were very experienced and well trained but they were never able to replace the veterans as their pilot losses piled up. It hurt them more to lose a veteran pilot as opposed to a plane.
If this is not changed for War Plan I think it is something that should be considered for War Plan 2.

Really more of an issue for the Japanese navy than army. The Imperial Japanese Army pilot training program was less rigorous and extensive than that of the navy since the army didn't need to train carrier pilots. The selection criteria were also not as demanding than in the navy where they were so strict that no more than 100 pilot candidates were accepted in some years. As a result, the IJA put more pilots through the pipeline and was able to maintain adequate pilot numbers almost until the end of the war until fuel restrictions started to cripple pilot training for everyone.

[stjeand]

The Germans will suffer later in the war as their manpower drops. I have played games where the German manpower is so low they have 45% experience repairs...when that happens..it gets ugly.
BUT it takes time and a lot of damage to them. They receive a lot of manpower boosts which keeps them going.

[canuckgamer]

stjeand, I just want to clarify your experience with the Germans. When you say late in the war can you give me an idea as to what date? Is it mid 1943, 1944? Wouldn't it be tied to how much manpower they have left rather than the time in the game?
Let's say a German panzer with 70% experience loses 10 SP so it is now a 20. When the Germans reach the threshold that you indicate does this mean that if they add 5 replacements the experience will now be 45% instead of 70%?
Thanks.

[stjeand]

I have only ever had the issue once with the Germans but then again I have not lost many times are the Germans and rarely do people play to the end.

You are correct...experience level is tied to manpower. But Germany rarely runs low until they start losing the war which is normally later in the game...1943 / 1944. Yes it can happen earlier but it is very unlikely.
Plus Germany receives an influx of manpower every 6 months to up them.

Let me use and example from my current game...a few turns ago.

The year 1942. Russia is below the 50% manpower threshold. Their base experience is 50% but because manpower is so low their experience is actually 45% for new units and replacements.

So If I have an infantry with 50% experience that takes 10 SP losses...

WHEN they repair this will happen.

Turn 1 of repair...5 SP points. Unit Experience 50% (20 SP). Replacement experience 45% (5 SP)
Experience level of the unit (20 X 50) + (5 x 45) = 1225 / 25 SP = Unit now has 49% experience.

Turn 2 of repair...5 SP points. Unit Experience 49% (25 SP). Replacement experience 45% (5 SP)
Experience level of the unit (25 x 49) + (5 x 45) = 1450 / 30 SP = Unit now has 48% experience.

With Germany I was at 50% at one point so the change is more drastic when repairing a 70% experience unit.

I hope that makes sense.

[canuckgamer]

Ok, I understand, the experience of a unit is calculated by pro-rating the experience of the strength points including those that have been added as replacements.
I was interested in your comment that you have only lost once as the Germans as I believe the 1939 campaign game still favours the Axis even with all the changes made in updates to "balance" the game. This is assuming that both players are at the same skill level.

[canuckgamer]

Sorry, I meant to say that I was interested in your comment that you only experienced it once as the Germans. However I do think the 1939 campaign game favours the Axis. Once they get a large enough difference in VPs they can sit back and defend with their superior experience.

[kklemmick]

I donno, the game I'm in with stjeand, it's only 1943 and I think it's going to be pretty challenging to "sit back and defend with their superior experience".

The way I'm guessing it will go (and this is my first time playing this far as the Axis, so it's all speculation), is that Germany's production will outstretch their manpower, causing them to either dip below 50% or manage this very carefully and let their army be attritted. I was thinking I'd invest heavily in air late game to avoid this, but with the amount of oil air uses that doesn't seem wise either. I'm curious how it ends up going.

[stjeand]

Well the thing I noticed as Axis late in the game is...when they have 2 / 3 / 4 fronts...then it starts to get troublesome. The Russian front is massive...and difficult to plug.
That requires a lot of troops to hold. One unit deep is fine until the Russians break through...then you have to cover the hole. BUT how do you do that when you are fighting the US / UK in Italy and France?
You weaken your units, split infantry corps...then you end up creating weak points and more holes...THEN manpower starts to become an issue as you repair and repair and repair...
But for Germany it takes a LONG time...Germany has NO manpower issue until maybe 1944 and they get another 120 in Jan 44 to help them through...After that is when they can experience an issue.

My issue in my current game is the Russian manpower is in this position. Germany won't have a manpower issue for another year and by then another 20 corps at least...but Russia already does. And that cripples their ability to fight. They currently can't repair without weakening their units and if they do that the German units walk over them.


I expect Germany to have a manpower issue in mid 1944...the earliest. I don't see any way outside that.

US and UK won't have an issue...Russia will always.

[stjeand]

In our game I am told Germany is having some manpower issues and it is 1943...how bad I don't know...

BUT the game just turned to 1944 and Germany gets 120 manpower added...
That should fix it until spring when the UK/US/Russia all start attacking. So more of an issue for Germany in July of 1944 I suspect...

[canuckgamer]

In my opinion the experience levels for the Italians, Romanians and Hungarians are too high. I opened up the 1942 scenario and saw that the Romanians and Hungarians are 50% which is the same level as the UK and USA. I didn't click on all the Italian units but the ones I did look at were 50% as well. I can understand that the USA having just entered the war are at 50% but really wonder about the 3 Axis countries.
Maybe their efficiency level should be capped at 60 to 70?
In our PBEM game the Axis player uses Romanians and Hungarians to garrison everywhere including western Europe, North Africa, Greece, Italy and so on. I can't remember specifically but I thought either the Romanians or Hungarians were restricted by their government to specific areas of the western front.

[stjeand]

If I remember...their exp grows like the US with attacks.

I supposed the assumption is that can happen.

There are no "rules" governing where units can go, not that I have ever seen.
So yes...I used them to garrison everywhere, but they are the weak points for attack. IF they are in a port that port is easier to take.

[AlvaroSousa]

In my opinion the experience levels for the Italians, Romanians and Hungarians are too high. I opened up the 1942 scenario and saw that the Romanians and Hungarians are 50% which is the same level as the UK and USA. I didn't click on all the Italian units but the ones I did look at were 50% as well. I can understand that the USA having just entered the war are at 50% but really wonder about the 3 Axis countries.
Maybe their efficiency level should be capped at 60 to 70?
In our PBEM game the Axis player uses Romanians and Hungarians to garrison everywhere including western Europe, North Africa, Greece, Italy and so on. I can't remember specifically but I thought either the Romanians or Hungarians were restricted by their government to specific areas of the western front.

They were restricted but I had not figured out a simple model to reflect this limitation at the time I made the game.