Welcome All. It has been quite a while since I done an AAR. Think it is time to do another.
My opponent and I have decided to take the freshly revamped Between the Storms: Fleet Faction. This is the 'heavy' version of the Between the Storms trio of Mods.
I am going to Post the new descriptions of the Mod over the next couple of Posts.
Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Between the Storms (3-3-24)
ALTNAV 1922-1935
The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.
The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:
1. The Ratio Change from 5:5:3 to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).
2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-Class CV. The Japanese convert a pair of Amagi-Class BC then back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.
3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.
The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.
2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.
3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.
American Admiral’s Moffat and Reeves argue—and win—for the allowance of up to 25% of cruiser construction to be of the Flightdeck Cruiser variety. This is a historically accurate argument; however, THIS reality allows for a further pair of Flightdeck Cruiser to be built. Japan begins with two, NZ one, Aust one, and the USN has FOUR.
***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami-Class as 6” CLs.
ALTNAV 1922-1935
The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.
The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:
1. The Ratio Change from 5:5:3 to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).
2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-Class CV. The Japanese convert a pair of Amagi-Class BC then back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.
3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.
The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.
2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.
3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.
American Admiral’s Moffat and Reeves argue—and win—for the allowance of up to 25% of cruiser construction to be of the Flightdeck Cruiser variety. This is a historically accurate argument; however, THIS reality allows for a further pair of Flightdeck Cruiser to be built. Japan begins with two, NZ one, Aust one, and the USN has FOUR.
***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami-Class as 6” CLs.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Between the Storms: The Fleet Faction Wins
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new cruiser/carrier-sized slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war.
Historically the battleship supporters of the Kaigun were known as the ‘Fleet Faction.’ Admiral Yamamoto becomes the Naval Minister, risking his life to the radicals within the nation, and he does battle with this group of Admirals. In this variant of the Mod, he is not able to convince the Fleet Faction to give up on the idea of the super-battleship. Japan is stuck with the enormous cost of the Yamato-Class Battleship. As done historically, four are ordered with two in 1936 and two more in 1940.
Rather than build more of their superlative heavy cruisers, the Fleet Faction follows up on the Treaty-Era Chichibu design and orders six Fuji-Class light battlecruisers. Using the Kongo-Class 14” gun, these warships are the definition of a battlecruiser. They are reasonably fast, carry 2x2 14” guns, 2x3 6” guns, Floatplanes, and have very lite armor.
Looking to replace the aging Nagara-Class Light Cruisers, ten more of the originally designed Mogami-Class CLs are ordered. These CLs are strong and balanced warships carrying 5x3 6” guns, excellent speed, and armament. Due to the experiences during the war, several of these are converted into CVLs.
Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its land-based successor the M3. These airframes are ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Sam (no Jack), while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.
On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.
The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.
Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class as well as the Fleet Faction-liked Shimakaze-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s.
Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new cruiser/carrier-sized slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war.
Historically the battleship supporters of the Kaigun were known as the ‘Fleet Faction.’ Admiral Yamamoto becomes the Naval Minister, risking his life to the radicals within the nation, and he does battle with this group of Admirals. In this variant of the Mod, he is not able to convince the Fleet Faction to give up on the idea of the super-battleship. Japan is stuck with the enormous cost of the Yamato-Class Battleship. As done historically, four are ordered with two in 1936 and two more in 1940.
Rather than build more of their superlative heavy cruisers, the Fleet Faction follows up on the Treaty-Era Chichibu design and orders six Fuji-Class light battlecruisers. Using the Kongo-Class 14” gun, these warships are the definition of a battlecruiser. They are reasonably fast, carry 2x2 14” guns, 2x3 6” guns, Floatplanes, and have very lite armor.
Looking to replace the aging Nagara-Class Light Cruisers, ten more of the originally designed Mogami-Class CLs are ordered. These CLs are strong and balanced warships carrying 5x3 6” guns, excellent speed, and armament. Due to the experiences during the war, several of these are converted into CVLs.
Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its land-based successor the M3. These airframes are ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Sam (no Jack), while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.
On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.
The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.
Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class as well as the Fleet Faction-liked Shimakaze-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s.
Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
It should be noted that this is the SECOND game between my opponent and I. We started a BTS game and got to mid-March 1942 and he WHOOPED MY ASS! I witnessed the single most one-sided carrier fight that I had ever, EVER seen. Did you notice that it happened in 1942???!!! Crazy. I was willing to soldier on but knew that we were going to be revamping the Mods and breaking them from two into three.
There is now a continuum of BTS Mods that range from:
1. The "Fleet Faction" holding firm and forcing Yamamoto to build the Yamato-Class. This leads to a MESS in the ship-building cue. I will be detailing that pretty quickly. There is still the airpower 'win' here with Yamamoto's leadership but it will be tough to build things...
2. "In the Balance" features Japan still building BBs but they are much more traditional with a 16" main battery and 45,000T. A pair of fast B-65 BC are also built with then more emphasis on CV escorts. The building cue is easier but still difficult.
3. "Treaty Faction: Air" demonstrates the possibility of the Fleet Faction LOSING out to Yamamoto with only a pair of BCs built, a new class of Command Cruiser, and more CVs. It is the most 'out there' of the Mods and is highly intriguing for play. Fellow designer NYGiants and One-Eyed Jacks are playtesting that variant of the Mods.
We are already on December 9, 1941. The initial moves are all well underway and I will detail all that in the next several Posts.
There is now a continuum of BTS Mods that range from:
1. The "Fleet Faction" holding firm and forcing Yamamoto to build the Yamato-Class. This leads to a MESS in the ship-building cue. I will be detailing that pretty quickly. There is still the airpower 'win' here with Yamamoto's leadership but it will be tough to build things...
2. "In the Balance" features Japan still building BBs but they are much more traditional with a 16" main battery and 45,000T. A pair of fast B-65 BC are also built with then more emphasis on CV escorts. The building cue is easier but still difficult.
3. "Treaty Faction: Air" demonstrates the possibility of the Fleet Faction LOSING out to Yamamoto with only a pair of BCs built, a new class of Command Cruiser, and more CVs. It is the most 'out there' of the Mods and is highly intriguing for play. Fellow designer NYGiants and One-Eyed Jacks are playtesting that variant of the Mods.
We are already on December 9, 1941. The initial moves are all well underway and I will detail all that in the next several Posts.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Forgot to mention that all my AARs are named after books I have just read or am reading. "Hell to Pay" is an excellent account of what the Allies would have run into if Operation Downfall had occurred in late-45 and early-46. It is rather eye opening and I really, REALLY encourage you to take a look at it. It is rather mind-numbing at times with all the details and statistics but it will hit you hard when you realize just how terrible the actual invasion would PROBABLY have been...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
-
1EyedJacks
- Posts: 2304
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:26 am
- Location: Reno, NV
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
I so need a popcorn emoji. 
I'll be tuning into this AAR tho - it sounds like fun and I'm curious to see how you play Japan - especially in the production and maintenance side of the mod. This thing just feels a ton different than a Scenario 1 or 2.
What are you doing for airframe production at the start of the game and why?
I'll be tuning into this AAR tho - it sounds like fun and I'm curious to see how you play Japan - especially in the production and maintenance side of the mod. This thing just feels a ton different than a Scenario 1 or 2.
What are you doing for airframe production at the start of the game and why?
TTFN,
Mike
Mike
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
I am CLOSING the AAR to my noble opponent.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
OK. I will do a set of Posts today that focus on the ship build as well as my economic choices for airframes and other good stuff. One has to be very careful due to the reduced stockpiles Japan starts the war with...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
The Shipyards have to following vessels set in cue:
- CV Con.jpg (151.54 KiB) Viewed 1291 times
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Here is surface fleet build:
- BB-CL Con.jpg (132.23 KiB) Viewed 1290 times
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
I am surprised that you didn't speed up the Yamato since it was already launched and would be undergoing trials in just a few days after the game starts if they already were not started.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
I have often thought about that. Just a hint of extra effort could have brought her forward into Dec 41 or Jan 42. Good point.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
The build problems are pretty manifest with those two Posts above. My intention is to get the initial logjam of Yamato, Musashi, Junyo, Hiyo, Ryuho, and Nisshin out as fast as possible. Will do a slight naval yard expansion and will detail that in a later Post. Figure to add 30-50 to the expansion of the yards initially and, if the economy is OK, then do another of similar size in April-May 42.
Will cover aircraft when I get home from work.
Will cover aircraft when I get home from work.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Had a little time so I thought I would Post thoughts on IJN CV aircraft production.
Bombers: The Judy is slated for 12/42 and Jill 2/43. Will invest in those planes and might bring them forward a little. Have really, REALLY fallen in love with that Judy-3 that carries the 800KG bomb! Will try to move that forward based on momentum from the earlier Judy research.
Fighters: The Sam comes in at three different dates. The A7M1 comes in 11/43, the M1a 6/44, and the RL version 11/44. I used my research books to set those dates. Will use the M1 though it is underpowered. The ARMOR is what I want there. Will research the HELL out of it to try for initial deployment in mid-43. Wanna fight those damned Hellkittens! The M1a is a slight upgrade and M2 is the standard Sam that all are used to.
Bombers: The Judy is slated for 12/42 and Jill 2/43. Will invest in those planes and might bring them forward a little. Have really, REALLY fallen in love with that Judy-3 that carries the 800KG bomb! Will try to move that forward based on momentum from the earlier Judy research.
Fighters: The Sam comes in at three different dates. The A7M1 comes in 11/43, the M1a 6/44, and the RL version 11/44. I used my research books to set those dates. Will use the M1 though it is underpowered. The ARMOR is what I want there. Will research the HELL out of it to try for initial deployment in mid-43. Wanna fight those damned Hellkittens! The M1a is a slight upgrade and M2 is the standard Sam that all are used to.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Think of all of the extra Naval Shipyard points . . .
"Named after the ancient Japanese Yamato Province, Yamato was designed to counter the numerically superior battleship fleet of the United States, Japan's main rival in the Pacific. She was laid down in 1937 and formally commissioned a week after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. . . . "
and
"During October or November 1941 Yamato underwent sea trials, reaching her maximum possible speed of 27.4 knots (50.7 km/h; 31.5 mph).[13][N 1] As war loomed, priority was given to accelerating military construction. On 16 December, months ahead of schedule, the battleship was formally commissioned at Kure, in a ceremony more austere than usual, as the Japanese were still intent on concealing the ship's characteristics.[13] The same day, under Captain (later Vice Admiral) Gihachi Takayanagi, she joined fellow battleships Nagato and Mutsu in the 1st Battleship Division."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... hip_Yamato
"Named after the ancient Japanese Yamato Province, Yamato was designed to counter the numerically superior battleship fleet of the United States, Japan's main rival in the Pacific. She was laid down in 1937 and formally commissioned a week after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. . . . "
and
"During October or November 1941 Yamato underwent sea trials, reaching her maximum possible speed of 27.4 knots (50.7 km/h; 31.5 mph).[13][N 1] As war loomed, priority was given to accelerating military construction. On 16 December, months ahead of schedule, the battleship was formally commissioned at Kure, in a ceremony more austere than usual, as the Japanese were still intent on concealing the ship's characteristics.[13] The same day, under Captain (later Vice Admiral) Gihachi Takayanagi, she joined fellow battleships Nagato and Mutsu in the 1st Battleship Division."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... hip_Yamato
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
"The ship's secondary battery consisted of twelve 60-calibre 155-millimetre 3rd Year Type guns mounted in four triple turrets, one each fore and aft of the superstructure and one on each side amidships. These had become available once the Mogami-class cruisers were rearmed with 200-millimetre (7.9 in) guns."
and
"Towards the end of fitting out, the ship's flagship facilities, including those on the bridge and in the admiral's cabins, were modified to satisfy Combined Fleet's desire to have the ship equipped as the primary flagship of the commander-in-chief, as her sister ship Yamato was too far along for such changes. These alterations, along with improvements in the secondary battery armour, pushed back completion and pre-handover testing of Musashi by two months, to August 1942."
and
"Musashi was commissioned at Nagasaki on 5 August 1942, and assigned to the 1st Battleship Division, together with Yamato, Nagato and Mutsu.[22] Beginning five days later, the ship conducted machinery and aircraft-handling trials near Hashirajima. Her secondary armament of twelve 127 mm guns, 12 triple 25 mm gun mounts, and four 13.2 mm (0.52 in) anti-aircraft machine guns was fitted 3–28 September 1942 at Kure, as well as a Type 21 radar. The ship was working up for the rest of the year. Arima was promoted to rear admiral on 1 November."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... ip_Musashi
and
"Towards the end of fitting out, the ship's flagship facilities, including those on the bridge and in the admiral's cabins, were modified to satisfy Combined Fleet's desire to have the ship equipped as the primary flagship of the commander-in-chief, as her sister ship Yamato was too far along for such changes. These alterations, along with improvements in the secondary battery armour, pushed back completion and pre-handover testing of Musashi by two months, to August 1942."
and
"Musashi was commissioned at Nagasaki on 5 August 1942, and assigned to the 1st Battleship Division, together with Yamato, Nagato and Mutsu.[22] Beginning five days later, the ship conducted machinery and aircraft-handling trials near Hashirajima. Her secondary armament of twelve 127 mm guns, 12 triple 25 mm gun mounts, and four 13.2 mm (0.52 in) anti-aircraft machine guns was fitted 3–28 September 1942 at Kure, as well as a Type 21 radar. The ship was working up for the rest of the year. Arima was promoted to rear admiral on 1 November."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... ip_Musashi
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
So Musashi could have been completed earlier than August as well, that time should really not cost Naval Shipyard points either. Plus the 155mm guns could possibly be replaced with more AA guns as well unless more of the 155mm guns and turrets would have been build for the Yamato and Musashi.
Since your mod is best for 2 players against each other, you could make the submarines cheaper to build by simply having a 0 day upgrade increasing their durability as well. That way those submarines won't be too expensive and would more likely to be built. There should be no way that a submarine should cost more than twice as much to build as a destroyer.
Since your mod is best for 2 players against each other, you could make the submarines cheaper to build by simply having a 0 day upgrade increasing their durability as well. That way those submarines won't be too expensive and would more likely to be built. There should be no way that a submarine should cost more than twice as much to build as a destroyer.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
I thought that the Judy-3 carried the 500kg bomb and the Judy-4 carried the 1000 kg bomb but really did not drop it but was a kamikaze aircraft.John 3rd wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:11 pm Had a little time so I thought I would Post thoughts on IJN CV aircraft production.
Bombers: The Judy is slated for 12/42 and Jill 2/43. Will invest in those planes and might bring them forward a little. Have really, REALLY fallen in love with that Judy-3 that carries the 800KG bomb! Will try to move that forward based on momentum from the earlier Judy research.
Fighters: The Sam comes in at three different dates. The A7M1 comes in 11/43, the M1a 6/44, and the RL version 11/44. I used my research books to set those dates. Will use the M1 though it is underpowered. The ARMOR is what I want there. Will research the HELL out of it to try for initial deployment in mid-43. Wanna fight those damned Hellkittens! The M1a is a slight upgrade and M2 is the standard Sam that all are used to.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
Brain Fart on my part. Yes--#4.
You are correct but there AIN'T no Kamikaze DB carrying 800Kg in my world. LOVE THEM dropping those ship killers.
You are correct but there AIN'T no Kamikaze DB carrying 800Kg in my world. LOVE THEM dropping those ship killers.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Re: Hell to Pay: BTS--Fleet Faction: Japan
For anyone who does not know, I am as aggressive of a Japanese player as can be found: "L'audace! L'audace! Toujour L'Audace!" I will not stop until I am BEATEN. It is as simple as that.
Campaigns require planning and forethought. Over the last decade-and-a-half of game play I have grabbed Tahiti, taken ALL of Australia, done the same with New Zealand several times, and TRIED to take the tar baby that is India. Have always found it impossible to simply expand to a reasonable perimeter and STOP. Admitting to this handicap is the first step towards recovery. Right? WRONG!
Time to try something stupidly spectacular.
The Hawaiian Islands are the target of this campaign. Pearl Harbor shall be all Japan's. BANZAI Baby!
With this as the plan everything else follows for taking this target.
The Kido Butai will strike PH several time with the goal of beating down the airpower of the base and fixing it so I do not bag just 1 or 2 American battleships. I want them ALL!
Carrier TFs:
The current composition of the Kido Butai is 4 CV and 2 CVL: CARDIV1 (Akagi, Amagi, and Karasu) and CARDIV5 (Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Ryukaku). They shall attack PH and surrounding bases for 3-4 days before commencing a slow retirement towards Midway to cover that landing.
KB-2 consists of CARDIV2 (Hiryu, Soryu, and 2 CAV). They will strike Manila, move down the west side of the Philippines, cover the Tarakan landing, and then head for Truk. From Truk they will move to cover the Line Islands Invasions to create the southern shoulder of the Hawaiian Operation.
DEI:
Singapore will be overwhelmed QUICKLY by six IDs.
Fast TF will be used to grab Singkawang and Palembang as quickly as possible.
The Central DEI will see Tarakan grabbed within days of the start then a fast lunge to get Balikpapan.
The Eastern DEI will wither on the vine until resources can be moved in that direction.
SE Pacific
I have to convince the Allies that Hawaii is not the objective until it is too late for them. With that in mind, we will move south making LOTS of noise but using little in manpower. I need a month for all the pieces to fall into place.
Campaigns require planning and forethought. Over the last decade-and-a-half of game play I have grabbed Tahiti, taken ALL of Australia, done the same with New Zealand several times, and TRIED to take the tar baby that is India. Have always found it impossible to simply expand to a reasonable perimeter and STOP. Admitting to this handicap is the first step towards recovery. Right? WRONG!
Time to try something stupidly spectacular.
The Hawaiian Islands are the target of this campaign. Pearl Harbor shall be all Japan's. BANZAI Baby!
With this as the plan everything else follows for taking this target.
The Kido Butai will strike PH several time with the goal of beating down the airpower of the base and fixing it so I do not bag just 1 or 2 American battleships. I want them ALL!
Carrier TFs:
The current composition of the Kido Butai is 4 CV and 2 CVL: CARDIV1 (Akagi, Amagi, and Karasu) and CARDIV5 (Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Ryukaku). They shall attack PH and surrounding bases for 3-4 days before commencing a slow retirement towards Midway to cover that landing.
KB-2 consists of CARDIV2 (Hiryu, Soryu, and 2 CAV). They will strike Manila, move down the west side of the Philippines, cover the Tarakan landing, and then head for Truk. From Truk they will move to cover the Line Islands Invasions to create the southern shoulder of the Hawaiian Operation.
DEI:
Singapore will be overwhelmed QUICKLY by six IDs.
Fast TF will be used to grab Singkawang and Palembang as quickly as possible.
The Central DEI will see Tarakan grabbed within days of the start then a fast lunge to get Balikpapan.
The Eastern DEI will wither on the vine until resources can be moved in that direction.
SE Pacific
I have to convince the Allies that Hawaii is not the objective until it is too late for them. With that in mind, we will move south making LOTS of noise but using little in manpower. I need a month for all the pieces to fall into place.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.