Russian winter and USSR-US power balance

[MoongazerSlitherineSSL]

1. I find it that the randomness (can just not happen on the first year) and severity of Russian winter somewhat ruins pacing of a match. Allied player has to rely on some powerful in-game event, over which he holds no control, instead of his own plays. If it happens on the first year - good, if not - well, you're screwed. Would not it be better if this event happened during the first winter with milder consequenses but USSR got more troops instead?
2. I feel that right now the US become the powerhouse wait too early while Russia barely able to delay the Germans on its own (usually not able at all). It especially contrasts with WiE where Russia can take much more punishment and still bite back while the US have to face the logisitical issue first and build up much slower. I get it that these two games are different but in WaW the Allies really have all eggs in one basket - it is all about the US.

[BillRunacre]

Hi

I'll see what I can do on both for the next patch. 2 is easier than 1 but there might actually be a way to do that too, without allowing players to game the system (as that was one reason for having the randomness in there, because Axis players were withdrawing units from the Eastern Front if they knew it was about to happen).

It is a difficult one so I don't want to promise, but we'll see.

[El_Condoro]

What about an option similar to the one the Soviets get in WiE for Volkov to prepare Leningrad? The player would choose whether to spend MPPs on winter preparation or suffer the strength/morale losses from the winter. Alternatively, the winter still affects units but to a lesser extent if the decision to prepare has been made. It's not historical, sure.

Personally, I tend to see removing units from the eastern front before the winter as just alternative play, in the same way that the German generals might have convinced Hitler that it was a good idea to provide winter gear to their forces. It involves the cost of transporting them and the weakening of the lines, so it comes with a cost, too.

[Elessar2]

Not trying to spark a rivalry with the Grigsby grogs, but on those titles Russian Winter is a real bear for the Axis (sorry ), and it should be here, as it was a real factor in the campaign, even if an "act of God" event that neither side has any direct control over. That said, a DE for winter gear would be a viable way to diminish its effects for the Axis.

[redrum68]

If I remember correctly, the challenge with the script is that it is open ended and doesn't necessarily trigger in a specific year but has a 75% chance per turn that the Axis are at war with the USSR and its winter season. In most games, this means it fires one of the first few winter turns in 41-42 winter but there is a chance that it doesn't fire that first winter they are at war which is pretty much game breaking. It was originally done that way in case the Axis invaded the USSR a year early or a year late so that they would still get the severe winter most likely the first winter they are at war.

Probably a better design would be to use a global variable in the script where it has say a 1/3 chance of firing each of the first 3 winter turns so you are guaranteed to get the winter penalty but it isn't predictable the exact turn. I think that would make the scripts more complex though if you want to allow it to fire in winters besides 41-42 if the Axis invade a year early or late though there are potential arguments that it should only fire during the historical winter and other game conditions should dictate the Axis almost always invading in 1941.

[Old_Shane]

I agree. This is a good place for DE. The good thing about recreating history is that you can play it differently than did the leaders of the time, presumably avoiding now obvious mistakes. Or being less egotistical. So, the “Russian Winter” event is historical and real. But as the Axis player you should have the opportunity to be smarter than Hitler. Of course, there is a cost. What are you going to delay investment in because you are going to equip your troops for winter? Or not going to because your Barbarossa is starting earlier in 1941 and your confidence in an Autumn victory is high. Or, find that you are bogged down and want to withdraw troops as a tactic to prevent losses (never tried this as I can’t countenance going the wrong way to Moscow). In the least a DE gives more choice and variability when the “Russian Winter” event hits.

[BillRunacre]

Probably a better design would be to use a global variable in the script where it has say a 1/3 chance of firing each of the first 3 winter turns so you are guaranteed to get the winter penalty but it isn't predictable the exact turn. I think that would make the scripts more complex though if you want to allow it to fire in winters besides 41-42 if the Axis invade a year early or late though there are potential arguments that it should only fire during the historical winter and other game conditions should dictate the Axis almost always invading in 1941.

Your ability to read my mind is rather uncanny... I just wish I had thought of this a few years ago!

It will take quite a few scripts to implement, so it is not a quick job, but I am coming to the conclusion that it can be done.

[James Taylor]

Seems like you're working yourself up to the challenge Bill. Better yet, since you guys have created the Pac War campaign, why not follow up with the Russian scenario at the division scale.

Anybody for "War in the East", SC version?

[havoc1371]

Russian winter is pretty tough now. It takes 2-3 turns and almost all of German economy to recover from the event. That players are pulling back Axis forces to try to circumvent losses is a bit ridiculous, since strategically redeploying them twice costs about as much as replacing 2 points of losses from "winter", never mind compromising the front line. If the Axis player is close enough to tactically move back out of Russia before the first winter turn, then they weren't doing well to begin with. I don't see how this is such an issue requiring correction.

[Umeu]

Russian winter is pretty tough now. It takes 2-3 turns and almost all of German economy to recover from the event. That players are pulling back Axis forces to try to circumvent losses is a bit ridiculous, since strategically redeploying them twice costs about as much as replacing 2 points of losses from "winter", never mind compromising the front line. If the Axis player is close enough to tactically move back out of Russia before the first winter turn, then they weren't doing well to begin with. I don't see how this is such an issue requiring correction.

it costs a bit more, but your morale/readiness doesn't get wrecked nearly as much. I pull back tanks. Not sure if it's worth it though, idk.