Morale 110 >= ?

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

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MarkShot
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Morale 110 >= ?

Post by MarkShot »

From the original manual page 353, "If the Axis turn ended with the situation above, those Soviet units will be moved by the AI (assuming it has a morale level of 110 or higher) without regard to the movement rules." What exactly is this implying?

* This applies to all AI opponents not just USSR?

* Does this mean that the AI get unlimited movement points or just the maximum regardless of other unit stats?

* As combat is MP, then this means that AI units have the maximum potential for combat?

* Does this imply for WITW that this 110 threshold is more impactful as there is no CPP?

* Does this morale threshold have any impact on air AGs?

Finally, despite my age (Senior), I am/was not a player of BG war games. But to me, WITW/WITE-2 seem somewhat strange that movement only triggers combat, and successful combat does not result in the victorious units occupying the contested HEX. Is there a reason to model movement/combat like this as opposed to filling the vacated HEX?

Thank you.
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Dereck
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Re: Morale 110 >= ?

Post by Dereck »

MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am From the original manual page 353, "If the Axis turn ended with the situation above, those Soviet units will be moved by the AI (assuming it has a morale level of 110 or higher) without regard to the movement rules." What exactly is this implying?

* This applies to all AI opponents not just USSR?

* Does this mean that the AI get unlimited movement points or just the maximum regardless of other unit stats?

* As combat is MP, then this means that AI units have the maximum potential for combat?

* Does this imply for WITW that this 110 threshold is more impactful as there is no CPP?

* Does this morale threshold have any impact on air AGs?

Finally, despite my age (Senior), I am/was not a player of BG war games. But to me, WITW/WITE-2 seem somewhat strange that movement only triggers combat, and successful combat does not result in the victorious units occupying the contested HEX. Is there a reason to model movement/combat like this as opposed to filling the vacated HEX?

Thank you.
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MarkShot
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Re: Morale 110 >= ?

Post by MarkShot »

Yes, I know that 110 is more than just 109+1 and a coefficient, but changes conditional logic and changes the very mechanics of the system. It is more than just probability. So, when tweaking to get some practice, I was very careful to to use 109.
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Joel Billings
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Re: Morale 110 >= ?

Post by Joel Billings »

MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am From the original manual page 353, "If the Axis turn ended with the situation above, those Soviet units will be moved by the AI (assuming it has a morale level of 110 or higher) without regard to the movement rules." What exactly is this implying?

* This applies to all AI opponents not just USSR?
The way the AI moves units is the same for both sides.
MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am * Does this mean that the AI get unlimited movement points or just the maximum regardless of other unit stats?
Sort of. It takes MPs out of the equation for most types of moves (not for zoc to zoc IIRC), but adds other restrictions that prevents many kinds of moves. I don't recall exactly when different restrictions kick in, either due to what the unit is doing (moving through zocs, attacking, etc.), or due to the exact level of play (at 109 it may be more restricted than at 110). There is no way Gary could get the game to play close to competitively if it had to move like a human player. The restrictions that Gary places on the AI is intended to reduce the obviously over the top cheating, and fundamentally helps it more in defending than in attacking (as it can warp units into an area in ways a human would not be able to, although at lower morale help levels even it's warping abilities have limits). We've often worked hard to keep the AI's playing by different rules to be less visible to the player, but in WitE2, the game got so complex that Gary couldn't afford to spend as much time on that aspect. We decided we'd accept more visible "cheating" in order to make the game more competitive.

MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am * As combat is MP, then this means that AI units have the maximum potential for combat?
Combat uses MPs, but that's not the same as saying it is combat. Only Gary might be able to answer your question (and only maybe because things changed so much during development that he probably doesn't remember all that he did - the AI will at times surprise him and do things he didn't expect). I think any "cheating" it does is more than offset by some pretty stupid behavior in other areas.

MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am * Does this imply for WITW that this 110 threshold is more impactful as there is no CPP?
I don't remember exactly how Gary handles the AI and CPP gain. Also, since WitW, many of the AI routines were changed. There was 6-7 years between WitW and WitE2, and lots of changes in the game design and the AI. So I can't answer the question. As much as I knew what Gary was doing in WitW (and have now forgotten), there was plenty in WitE2 that changed so much that I gave up trying to keep track of. I felt more like a part time auditor of Gary's work with WitE2, in that I would at times delve into specific items if I saw something I didn't like or couldn't explain. For Gary and me, our combined ability to keep everything in our head (or on paper) was declining, while the amount to be kept track of was exploding.

MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am * Does this morale threshold have any impact on air AGs?
I don't think there's anything special about 110 morale versus 109 or 111 re air groups. However, morale level help does come into play for air units in all normal ways.
MarkShot wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:52 am Finally, despite my age (Senior), I am/was not a player of BG war games. But to me, WITW/WITE-2 seem somewhat strange that movement only triggers combat, and successful combat does not result in the victorious units occupying the contested HEX. Is there a reason to model movement/combat like this as opposed to filling the vacated HEX?
I can't say if Gary had a reason in mind when he designed the basic system, and it's not anything I ever questioned him on (that I can remember). It could be as simple as he didn't want to design the interface for players to decide how to pick a unit or units to advance after a victory. Gary is a prolific designer of games, and part of that is his designing things that he can do quickly and then waiting to see if it gets challenged in the testing and development process. At that point on some things he adjusts, and on others he digs in (either due to his design philosophy versus history or because something is harder to do than is worth doing). He's got over 30 published games to his credit now, so he must be doing something right. ;)
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