Which Formations are you willing to dump?

[newageofpower]

According to my testing, it looks like modding in new OOBs is cursed. Which explains why neither Catasteroid nor Pymous's (deprecated) mods have new OOBs.

However the need for pure walkers (and other useful formations) is surely greater than the 99th variant of unmechanized, unmotorized towed guns + light infantry + tanks, right?

So, please gib feedbacks on which formations you're okay with exchanging for more useful ones.

[solops]

The only formations I use are MG Infantry, Armored and Heavy Armor. Using my Staff Advisor, I usually add RPGs to the MG Infantry and mech arty to the tank formations. If I get rich enough, I might add hvy tanks to the armored formations and med tanks to the hvy tank formations, resulting in pretty much a doubling of the size of each battalion in the formations. Works well for me.

I do the same thing with the independent units of each type.

[solops]

As far as symbology goes, as an old boardgamer I recommend the standard boardgaming symbology when possible, based off old NATO symbology. Mr. Royer has made a valiant effort to implement improved symbology, but has been limited by the game.

I am going to re-post a link I posted back in 2020:

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3839043/scorched-earth

from this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8&t=356128

[mroyer]

As far as symbology goes, as an old boardgamer I recommend the standard boardgaming symbology when possible, based off old NATO symbology. Mr. Royer has made a valiant effort to implement improved symbology, but has been limited by the game.

Oooohhhh.... Mr. Solops is a Europa man! I'd forgotten the old discussion you linked.



BTW, newageofpower - not sure where you're headed with this, but I am happy to send you the original Excel spreadsheet and NATO images from that proposal if it helps in any way. Just let me know.

-Mark R.

[newageofpower]

The only formations I use are MG Infantry, Armored and Heavy Armor.

On the Discord I'm hearing hatred of formations involving unmotorized/unmechanized infantry with artillery, great love of customized heavy MG/RPG & non-trivial support for heavy grenadier types.

Curious - if you need and can afford more tanks in a unit wouldn't it make more sense to jump from brigade/battalion to corps/regiment rather than customizing the bejesus out of the battalion?

BTW, newageofpower - not sure where you're headed with this, but I am happy to send you the original Excel spreadsheet and NATO images from that proposal if it helps in any way. Just let me know.

-Mark R.

Spreadsheet could help in planning, thanks!

I am going to (try to) replace the least useful/popular multi-unit OOBs with custom ones, to avoid the crash I had when trying to add new formations.

So far I've developed the following multi-unit formations:

Pure: Walker, Heavy Walker, Mech Artillery, Rocket Launcher, Missile Launcher
Mixed: Combined Walker (Normal + Heavy), Vanguard Light Armor (Light Tank + Mech QMG), Armored Mech. Arty (Medium Tank + SPG), Garrison (Infantry + MG Bunker + Turret Bunker), Heavy Garrison (like before but less infantry and more emplacements), Light Striker (Jetpack + Walker), Heavy Striker (Jetpack + Heavy Walker)

You can look at the files on my newest bug report thread, lol.

[Xmudder]

I'd like there to be a lot less "base" formations and more opportunities to customize them.

Mostly I use MG Infantry + RPG and add a MANPAD once I get into a fight with someone who has aircraft (can we add Manpad to our inf HQ units please?). I also use independent armored units, often attached to a brigade.

Mot Inf seems like it does more harm than good in my games.

[fibol]

The entire Assault Infantry line I do not see much point in, I'd rather have infantry and tanks as seperate units, so those can go.
Same thing with the tank infantry formations, especially since the infantry component there is so tiny its just pure liability.
I am open to the idea that tank assault formations could potentially have some kind of use, but I wouldn't cry about them going away either.

Edit: What I would especially like to have is a infantry formation with 2 AT guns, unlocked from the start. Useful early on in resource constrained envirnoments when you need something to hold off hard target xenos, can't afford 70 AT guns per tile and don't have the PP and time to do the whole customising shebangans.

[newageofpower]

don't have the PP and time to do the whole customising shebangans.

I'd like there to be a lot less "base" formations and more opportunities to customize them.

How do you guys feel about disabling most non-pure formations and just getting a, say, 10x multiplier on customization point production?

[mroyer]

don't have the PP and time to do the whole customising shebangans.

I'd like there to be a lot less "base" formations and more opportunities to customize them.

How do you guys feel about disabling most non-pure formations and just getting a, say, 10x multiplier on customization point production?

I like the idea.

[Bellrock]

The concept of discovering, then followed by researching a given pre-made OOB formation could use a revamp in my opinion. The randomness associated with discovering then researching a new technology makes sense, but this same system applied to the OBB discovery / research is immersion breaking for me. Starting with the fact there are too many OBB’s to be discovered in the first place, a number of which are not useful. For example, an Infantry and Artillery combo which has major movement penalties. A better combo would be an Infantry plus a Motorized Artillery (Infantry not motorized), but this unit is not possible.

I would prefer something along the lines of having some a Base Independent Units (such as: Infantry / MG / Art / Tanks / etc.) in which you unlock, or discover the ability to modify this base unit by adding say +5 of some other unit type (like you can do now). Then say, you would need research this new independent unit to be able to field. After some time this modified independent could then be researched to form an OBB. Also at some future point, you would discovery to ability to add additional +5 (for a total of +10) more to the same modified Independent unit, and continue the process.

Additional discovery / research unlocks might include starting off with only three brigades to an OBB, then having to discover/research a fourth, fifth, sixth, etc. additional brigades to the OBB. The ability to research a command headquarters to group a number of OBB’s together to form deeper command structures. A different sort of research approach to the units along these lines would add some strategic depth to this portion of the game.

I know these musing are not helping with your initial question, but I can’t come with a useful ideas on how adjust what currently exist in this portion of the game. While there are some interesting game mechanics with the OBB discover / research, what has been implemented is not working well.

[Soar_Slitherine]

The existing list of OOBs is incredibly bloated with slight variations of pointless garbage. The only existing OHQs I'd keep are pure armor, light infantry, (heavy) MG/RPG/grenadiers, and motorized/mechanized variants thereof. Everything else in the list is either useless or can be trivially recreated through customization.

[mroyer]

The existing list of OOBs is incredibly bloated with slight variations of pointless garbage. The only existing OHQs I'd keep are pure armor, light infantry, (heavy) MG/RPG/grenadiers, and motorized/mechanized variants thereof. Everything else in the list is either useless or can be trivially recreated through customization.

I agree - but customization points would need to be reviewed to see if they need to be adjusted at all to account for the additional use. Perhaps merely adjusting the Staff Council's BP is enough, but that's not clear to me off hand.

BTW, it should be noted that the OOB bloat preceded the introduction of customization. So, in the early days it made more sense.

-Mark R.

[newageofpower]

Just uploaded a new version of my mod, now featuring some swapped formations and increased early-game customization point generation!

Check it out: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&t=406717

While there are some interesting game mechanics with the OBB discover / research, what has been implemented is not working well.

You make great points, but unfortunately, given the existing mod tools I'm completely clueless on how to implement these changes.

I agree - but customization points would need to be reviewed to see if they need to be adjusted at all to account for the additional use. Perhaps merely adjusting the Staff Council's BP is enough, but that's not clear to me off hand.

I set the BP inefficiency cutoff at 10 points to (hopefully) keep customization non-trivial.